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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Llew's 957 Cayenne
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I know this is mostly irrelevant to most of you 
but I thought I'd share as I guess it does give insight into what goes into buying quite an old car and the kind of maintenance you need to factor in. It also gives me a thread I can point to when people think we are kidding about having a continuously growing 'slush fund' of 50K+ for our car endeavours. Anyway, money where my mouth (or keyboard?) usually is on this one:
Cafe 9 did a bit of work on the Cayenne. Many MANY guys chimed in with support for them. I will say Porsche was extremely helpful once I'd done the ownership change with them and I will do a few things there where it makes sense.
Excellent communication and experience with Cafe 9. What I did appreciate is that they cut my list of items in half going through and physically making sure things were fine and prioritising things for the future. There are some items that weren't actually in need of attention or had been recently replaced etc.
The objective was to bring the car up to a baseline level of maintenance and to allocate a max of R40K to deferred and unknown maintenance plus repairs. So far, it seems that I can actually cover all my preventative maintenance as well with cash to spare (mostly the propshaft 'fix').
Things done:
0. Oil service with Mobil 1 (R3740)
1. Brake fluid (R1780)
2. Coolant (Approx R590)
3. Attended to the sole leak (R1900 including O rings, gaskets and flange of sorts)
4. Attend to some vacuum lines (R1100)
The 'unseen' bits of the Engine bay will get some TLC from me next week.
I had wanted them to sort out a few other items during this visit: but I will cover that off in a month or two as stock was an issue:
1. The rear glass shocks (the inner bit that opens). The tailgate works fine but these act as helper shocks as well to avoid strain on the hydraulic motor - These are R1200 for the pair
2. Vent line and a rubber seal to finish the vacuum system fixes (there was no stock at Porsche or VW) - this is about R1500 in parts
3. Transmission oils/filters: R11K
4. Not necessary but I would still like to do the serpentine belt so that I have my baseline set at a 'round' mileage for all the items above.
In terms of cosmetics and back to the DIY side, I came across a company on Facebook Marketplace called JB Racing based in KZN
There were a handful of covers and trims missing and a faulty interior lamp holder (I'd tested this beforehand). This is super common because of the clips used (old and new below). I did find one of the trims when cleaning, but after rattling around the boot for as long as it did, I was happy to get one in better shape. There is a very easy fix which I am going to be doing when fitting these later in the week to make sure they don't come loose again.
The battery in the Cayenne is under the passenger seat. As part of the process to tilt the seat base up for access, there are two plastic trim pieces covering the bolts that need to be removed - these inevitably disappear over time or are broken by careless techs. Of course, these sorts of things end up nickel-and-diming you on a project so getting them for about a quarter of the new price was welcome. There is now nothing 'missing' from the Cayenne 🥳.
Will update with those bits later in the week. Waiting for one more (VERY) nice cosmetic thing to arrive for that post...
Obligatory reminder that when buying ANY used car you need to factor in a fair bit for your initial maintenance... and get into things QUICKLY. Most of this is for your own peace of mind as a dealer will give it a clean bill of health, handwave your concerns with an FSH stamped book (often no invoices...) and point to Dekra/101 point checks. I would also like to point out that this was a Dekra Gold car with a RWC voucher that it passed first time. Something about comforting lies and ignorance being bliss to that! You should never have an expectation of 'peace of mind' except with what your own investigation/eyes/ears tell you especially in our current market and with dealer and workshop ethics being what they are.
You need to plan for this whether the car has FSH or not. There are plenty of cars that visit a dealer and get a stamp but have tons of deferred maintenance waiting... Fortunately, in this case there is evidence to suggest it was fairly well cared for the vast majority of its life. If any of the above appeared scary, also an obligatory reminder that an old expensive car that has depreciated to an affordable price is going to have expensive-car maintenance bills. If you could not buy the car when it was new-ish, the used car is likely going to be more of a nightmare than a bargain. This is as-true for a 120d as it is for an M5 or an Italian exotic.
but I thought I'd share as I guess it does give insight into what goes into buying quite an old car and the kind of maintenance you need to factor in. It also gives me a thread I can point to when people think we are kidding about having a continuously growing 'slush fund' of 50K+ for our car endeavours. Anyway, money where my mouth (or keyboard?) usually is on this one:Cafe 9 did a bit of work on the Cayenne. Many MANY guys chimed in with support for them. I will say Porsche was extremely helpful once I'd done the ownership change with them and I will do a few things there where it makes sense.
Excellent communication and experience with Cafe 9. What I did appreciate is that they cut my list of items in half going through and physically making sure things were fine and prioritising things for the future. There are some items that weren't actually in need of attention or had been recently replaced etc.
The objective was to bring the car up to a baseline level of maintenance and to allocate a max of R40K to deferred and unknown maintenance plus repairs. So far, it seems that I can actually cover all my preventative maintenance as well with cash to spare (mostly the propshaft 'fix').
Things done:
0. Oil service with Mobil 1 (R3740)
1. Brake fluid (R1780)
2. Coolant (Approx R590)
3. Attended to the sole leak (R1900 including O rings, gaskets and flange of sorts)
4. Attend to some vacuum lines (R1100)
The 'unseen' bits of the Engine bay will get some TLC from me next week.
I had wanted them to sort out a few other items during this visit: but I will cover that off in a month or two as stock was an issue:
1. The rear glass shocks (the inner bit that opens). The tailgate works fine but these act as helper shocks as well to avoid strain on the hydraulic motor - These are R1200 for the pair
2. Vent line and a rubber seal to finish the vacuum system fixes (there was no stock at Porsche or VW) - this is about R1500 in parts
3. Transmission oils/filters: R11K
4. Not necessary but I would still like to do the serpentine belt so that I have my baseline set at a 'round' mileage for all the items above.
In terms of cosmetics and back to the DIY side, I came across a company on Facebook Marketplace called JB Racing based in KZN
There were a handful of covers and trims missing and a faulty interior lamp holder (I'd tested this beforehand). This is super common because of the clips used (old and new below). I did find one of the trims when cleaning, but after rattling around the boot for as long as it did, I was happy to get one in better shape. There is a very easy fix which I am going to be doing when fitting these later in the week to make sure they don't come loose again.
The battery in the Cayenne is under the passenger seat. As part of the process to tilt the seat base up for access, there are two plastic trim pieces covering the bolts that need to be removed - these inevitably disappear over time or are broken by careless techs. Of course, these sorts of things end up nickel-and-diming you on a project so getting them for about a quarter of the new price was welcome. There is now nothing 'missing' from the Cayenne 🥳.
Will update with those bits later in the week. Waiting for one more (VERY) nice cosmetic thing to arrive for that post...
Obligatory reminder that when buying ANY used car you need to factor in a fair bit for your initial maintenance... and get into things QUICKLY. Most of this is for your own peace of mind as a dealer will give it a clean bill of health, handwave your concerns with an FSH stamped book (often no invoices...) and point to Dekra/101 point checks. I would also like to point out that this was a Dekra Gold car with a RWC voucher that it passed first time. Something about comforting lies and ignorance being bliss to that! You should never have an expectation of 'peace of mind' except with what your own investigation/eyes/ears tell you especially in our current market and with dealer and workshop ethics being what they are.
You need to plan for this whether the car has FSH or not. There are plenty of cars that visit a dealer and get a stamp but have tons of deferred maintenance waiting... Fortunately, in this case there is evidence to suggest it was fairly well cared for the vast majority of its life. If any of the above appeared scary, also an obligatory reminder that an old expensive car that has depreciated to an affordable price is going to have expensive-car maintenance bills. If you could not buy the car when it was new-ish, the used car is likely going to be more of a nightmare than a bargain. This is as-true for a 120d as it is for an M5 or an Italian exotic.
I pulled something similar early 2022. WBC had a FL ML270CDi sitting around that one one wanted to touch. It was grimy and just a tad (i mean alot) flithy. I maked a mate to check it out for me since it was in the WC. Came back, all the paperwork and invoices for the past couple of years in the owners manual, very expensive Michelins on it. Had it detailed and it looked spectacular.
Only had a broken exhaust manifold bolt and the gearbox was stuck in 2nd when in drive. Paid nothing for it and spent less than half of that fixing it and having it detailed. Me and my partner loved it. Seats were superb, ride quality was great, grip was impressive (275 sections will do that). The guy who maintains my Mercs hated these ML's as they were old mens cars, (he did his apprenticeship at Merc when these were new), it developed a hard start issue and i made him drive it a week to make sure the problem was purged when i came to collect and pay the bill, he offered to buy it off me. He and his wife with newborn now go offroading once a month in it and he adores it.
I have been thinking another old cheap SUV needs to happen in my household again, and oddly it is the VR6 Cayenne or just another old ML. There are diamonds in the rough and you get get a great bargain if one understands it is a 20y old car and it was expensive then and will be expensivish now to maintain.
Cafe9 is run by a mate of mine. They do top notch work.
Only had a broken exhaust manifold bolt and the gearbox was stuck in 2nd when in drive. Paid nothing for it and spent less than half of that fixing it and having it detailed. Me and my partner loved it. Seats were superb, ride quality was great, grip was impressive (275 sections will do that). The guy who maintains my Mercs hated these ML's as they were old mens cars, (he did his apprenticeship at Merc when these were new), it developed a hard start issue and i made him drive it a week to make sure the problem was purged when i came to collect and pay the bill, he offered to buy it off me. He and his wife with newborn now go offroading once a month in it and he adores it.
I have been thinking another old cheap SUV needs to happen in my household again, and oddly it is the VR6 Cayenne or just another old ML. There are diamonds in the rough and you get get a great bargain if one understands it is a 20y old car and it was expensive then and will be expensivish now to maintain.
Cafe9 is run by a mate of mine. They do top notch work.
///M Individual
Well-known member
Nice update Llew! We definitely enjoy the content even though its not a BMW.
I know of Johnny from JB Racing - has a lot of the spares for the older cars. My bud Jeeva at High Octane Tuning In Tongaat also sources some stuff from him.
I know of Johnny from JB Racing - has a lot of the spares for the older cars. My bud Jeeva at High Octane Tuning In Tongaat also sources some stuff from him.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
One of the attractions to this one (particularly having looked at a few other options) was that I could see beyond the dirty bits and how it presented. I think how a car presents initially has a huge impact on most people and we often get caught up (we certainly were finding this ourselves) thinking that Car A plus R40K is nearly the price of Car B which looks nicer. When you dig a little bit it turns out Car B would need R50K put into it anyway but it was just cleaner. There is of course a 'right' or 'acceptable' price for anything and everyone has different appetite for these things. I think most people are going to be very happy with a 20d or 30d and that is likely what is best for most people... but I CAN say that they are NOT bargains outside of what you may find on this forum... not in F25 or E70 forms and the specs that are on offer when you factor in just how much needs to be done (definitely more than the above).
I have never been an SUV person (and I that is still definitely the case LOL) so the prospect of R900-1.2M on a car that I had no love for was not exactly appetising. These are also all on big wheels with low profile tyres and need the same care as driving an M5 anyway... this is despite no X5 30d having a 'perfect' set of other specs. Made very little sense to me and I was NOT going to (on top of spending that) settle for one where I was missing something we wanted. The X3M comp was very tempting but I already have an F90 and a 4C... and the use case for this was just not there... maybe if I was willing to swap the M5 for an X5M Comp (which I was not)
Definitely bargains to be had but also a bit of a mindset shift for most people. I think someone who can't do their own detailing, can't wrench a bit and has no appetite for DIY will have a VERY bad time with either your or my option
especially if they have been looking for 'peace of mind' on an older car. There are loads of things you can DIY and save on or utilise parts referencing for if you choose the right platform.You may not get all the way there but there is no such thing (on these or BMWs) as a car with 'zero' service history. You can always piece something together from the dealer records and through phoning around to a few places that might have done work on the car. Mine for instance has gone from a 'no service history' car to one where it's nearly complete - An unscrupulous seller would handwave it away as 'the owner didn't drive much for the last 20000km which is why theres a gap'
You can save a few thousand (literally) on labour for basic maintenance that you can put into other more serious work that requires a workshop/lift or that you can put into getting OEM parts if you want them. Whatever the case, it is critical to do research into these 'alternatives' to the mainstream default recommendations. I think (as with any old car whether it's a beetle or a 911) getting a fairly COMPLETE car is also very important. Every damaged or missing trim piece or leaky/damaged/torn part adds up! I found this to be the case with my beetle which WAS fairly complete to begin with. It's the only reason I managed to get what I put in out of it. Had I bought one of the SLIGHTLY cheaper cars at eg: R5K/10K less I would have had +R20-25K added to my overall bill for a car not worth any more than the one I had bought and thus would have been upside down on it. Again one of those cars that presented quite poorly at first vs polished/painted/retrimmed examples, but turned out to be overall a better project in the end.
POPI .... Probably the only word more misused , less understood, and more widely thrown around than "digital transformation"
GravityLee
Well-known member
I’d have thought a car with that kind of documentation and level of pedantry would have been an instant sale on one of the platforms rather than a WBC sacrifice? Why to them?
GravityLee
Well-known member
Let me introduce you to AI…
It was a one of one kinda car. Red W204 V6 Diesel wagon with a extensive list of extras. Lots and lots of timewasters and people who said call me when you want to sell. They had two weeks no one came forth, so off it went.
Seen this more than enough. That car sold 12 hours after getting listed.
Same with my 530d, 50 people asking all kinds of iditoic questions that were clearly stated in the add. Thankfully a radiologist came, looked at it and said he will take it without driving it, i insisted he drove it, 4 days later i was in a uber back home with my 530d heading to Nigel, If he didn't take it it was going to WBC.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
One would think so, but I feel like I've had @tamgoem 's experience a good few times where it's tyre kickers for days or guys that even pick holes in your extensive history - umm and ahh about how you have 'skipped' a valve adjustment (in their opinion not according to the manufacturer's instructions) or the car was not serviced often enough for their liking. Good luck to them getting that elsewhere. Unfortunately selling a car means having to deal with these kinds of people. Same way I would never want to own a shop with anything car related because you have to deal with such people where whatever it is will be wrong
.That being said, I have also had the opposite with my Beetle which was fully documented and F10 M5, both of which were not even advertised: It was one of the 'waiting list' guys that bought it. I am fully open cards on everything and there are my two threads on here that have warts-and-all coverage of my cars. If someone wants to poke holes or come with stories they can bugger off.
With the 'waiting list' friends and acquaintances, you will often find that the timing doesn't align for them or they don't have the appetite/means to follow through with it when the time comes. Ultimately WBC/Wheelie/Dealers are the easiest way to move on with your life.
That said, the Merc transaction included all the documentation that I had on it - the whole file went.
The whole privacy thing has its pros and cons. I would much rather not be associated with a car 2 or 3 owners down the line and have someone with a few screws loose show up to to tell me his subsequently abused/neglected thing had broken because I did a valve adjustment 2 weeks late 7 years ago...
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
It was on Cricket duty today saving me from having to vacuum tons of grass out of my M5 immediately afterwards
I am biased on this one, but the shape has aged quite nicely. I also had a very different perception of Cayennes and their capabilities before reading into them!
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
All the posts about sound recently:
The CDR-30 unit wasn't working for me. My wife LOVES listening to the radio and I actually hate it. Since the CDR-30 (as with many such units at this age) no longer played any CDs and the fairly clean mechanical bill of health left some budget to play with it went towards this micro-project
The unit I went with is a Pioneer DMH-A5450BT double DIN with wireless AA and Carplay.
I got a random quadlock connector (BMW/Opel to ISO) from "My Audio & Security" and repinned it accordingly instead of hunting for something specific. I also had to get a FAKRA to DIN adapter for the antenna.
Porsche generates a switched 12V/wake signal via CANBUS. Although I HAVE canbus hi/low easily accessible via the harness, I didn't really need anything else from a converter (which is not cheap). The converters generate analogue 'speed pulse', handbrake, reverse and 'wake/switched 12V' signals and some can pass vehicle data to the head unit as well. Because of this, I had to get some fuse taps (Takealot has a pack for R140) to run a cable from the fuse box to get a switched 12v signal. Fortunately, very simple and guys have figured out which fuse is most convenient etc years ago.
The GPS antenna and Mic were fairly easy to run with a natural location for each. It was quite easy to work behind and underneath the dash to route everything cleanly.
I got a Metra trim panel and mounting hardware from Amazon (US Store) and had it shipped. It worked out to around R450 including shipping and customs and took about 5 days to arrive. The kit matches the OEM trim very nicely in person (Hard to see in pics). The tabs allow for it to be adjusted a bit so the unit sticks out more, but I quite liked this recessed look. It feels like it is from a time before iPads on the dash were in fashion. There is a lip that needs to be trimmed to bring the unit out a bit more (there are notes on this for certain modern HUs that go for this kind of look). I will re-evaluate when I do the rear view cam. I suspect I will leave it like this.
My only gripe is that I would have preferred a volume knob. The capacitive touch is OK and responsive, but it has a remote that fits conveniently in a spot in the centre console so it'll do . For the price (Thanks Thiren) it was a no-brainer. What is very nice is that it starts up very quickly, it's quite snappy and it has a lot of adjustment.
It works nicely with the 3 way fronts (8" + 3" in door and 1" tweeter in dash) that are fairly high sensitivity/low power drivers. Bass is (surprisingly) plentiful and quite tight, but highs are a bit anaemic on vocals. Not exactly the B&W system from my F90, but hey, it's a head unit powering 16 year old speakers and I am quite happy! There are several component speaker upgrades for this but none of them are cheap ranging from R5K to "call for price" on Hertz Mille Legends/Focal Utopias/Audison Thesis etc. Many guys do 6.5" conversions which is what I may consider at some point in the future... particularly if adding a sub.
Next step would be an amp to prepare for a future upgrade.
One last note is that 5/6 years back when I looked at Android units they ran rings around most of the available traditional double DIN units. My android unit in the Alfa has needed one repair (but COULD be repaired feasibly and was decently made when inspected). It remains quite functional albeit with the odd wireless Carplay glitch (BMW also not immune to this though).
The newer "traditional" head units have a native interface that is better and feel alot faster than they used to (faster and 'snappier' than the Joying unit in my Alfa). The Android units have gone up in price (especially those that are 'custom fit' to the vehicle) to the point that it is not feasible to use them since they are no-better than my Joying unit is. What was a R5K-ish exercise on my Alfa (and room to forgive some issues) would have been a R13K exercise on the Porsche a few years on. At that price I wouldn't have had as much patience or understanding for niggles. I DID try to source an OEM look unit from China but this can be hit and miss with units not having the correct specs or just failing after a few months. There are also copies of the top brands (Joying, Seicane, Xtrons etc) which is quite hilarious On the less expensive and copycat units, it's also one thing not to have physical buttons - quite another when you have to swipe down, 'catch' the volume button before the panel auto-hides and then drag a slider. Some have 'dummy' physical buttons or even dummy 'disc slots' but require you to use the touchscreen interface
Anyway although I was still considering those, when this particular deal came up it was a no-brainer for a BNIB unit.
So finally a completed audio project! I also had some speaker mounts 3D printed for my Alfa... another project for another day
The CDR-30 unit wasn't working for me. My wife LOVES listening to the radio and I actually hate it. Since the CDR-30 (as with many such units at this age) no longer played any CDs and the fairly clean mechanical bill of health left some budget to play with it went towards this micro-project
The unit I went with is a Pioneer DMH-A5450BT double DIN with wireless AA and Carplay.
I got a random quadlock connector (BMW/Opel to ISO) from "My Audio & Security" and repinned it accordingly instead of hunting for something specific. I also had to get a FAKRA to DIN adapter for the antenna.
Porsche generates a switched 12V/wake signal via CANBUS. Although I HAVE canbus hi/low easily accessible via the harness, I didn't really need anything else from a converter (which is not cheap). The converters generate analogue 'speed pulse', handbrake, reverse and 'wake/switched 12V' signals and some can pass vehicle data to the head unit as well. Because of this, I had to get some fuse taps (Takealot has a pack for R140) to run a cable from the fuse box to get a switched 12v signal. Fortunately, very simple and guys have figured out which fuse is most convenient etc years ago.
The GPS antenna and Mic were fairly easy to run with a natural location for each. It was quite easy to work behind and underneath the dash to route everything cleanly.
I got a Metra trim panel and mounting hardware from Amazon (US Store) and had it shipped. It worked out to around R450 including shipping and customs and took about 5 days to arrive. The kit matches the OEM trim very nicely in person (Hard to see in pics). The tabs allow for it to be adjusted a bit so the unit sticks out more, but I quite liked this recessed look. It feels like it is from a time before iPads on the dash were in fashion. There is a lip that needs to be trimmed to bring the unit out a bit more (there are notes on this for certain modern HUs that go for this kind of look). I will re-evaluate when I do the rear view cam. I suspect I will leave it like this.
My only gripe is that I would have preferred a volume knob. The capacitive touch is OK and responsive, but it has a remote that fits conveniently in a spot in the centre console so it'll do
. For the price (Thanks Thiren) it was a no-brainer. What is very nice is that it starts up very quickly, it's quite snappy and it has a lot of adjustment. It works nicely with the 3 way fronts (8" + 3" in door and 1" tweeter in dash) that are fairly high sensitivity/low power drivers. Bass is (surprisingly) plentiful and quite tight, but highs are a bit anaemic on vocals. Not exactly the B&W system from my F90, but hey, it's a head unit powering 16 year old speakers and I am quite happy! There are several component speaker upgrades for this but none of them are cheap ranging from R5K to "call for price" on Hertz Mille Legends/Focal Utopias/Audison Thesis etc. Many guys do 6.5" conversions which is what I may consider at some point in the future... particularly if adding a sub.
Next step would be an amp to prepare for a future upgrade.
One last note is that 5/6 years back when I looked at Android units they ran rings around most of the available traditional double DIN units. My android unit in the Alfa has needed one repair (but COULD be repaired feasibly and was decently made when inspected). It remains quite functional albeit with the odd wireless Carplay glitch (BMW also not immune to this though).
The newer "traditional" head units have a native interface that is better and feel alot faster than they used to (faster and 'snappier' than the Joying unit in my Alfa). The Android units have gone up in price (especially those that are 'custom fit' to the vehicle) to the point that it is not feasible to use them since they are no-better than my Joying unit is. What was a R5K-ish exercise on my Alfa (and room to forgive some issues) would have been a R13K exercise on the Porsche a few years on. At that price I wouldn't have had as much patience or understanding for niggles. I DID try to source an OEM look unit from China but this can be hit and miss with units not having the correct specs or just failing after a few months. There are also copies of the top brands (Joying, Seicane, Xtrons etc) which is quite hilarious
On the less expensive and copycat units, it's also one thing not to have physical buttons - quite another when you have to swipe down, 'catch' the volume button before the panel auto-hides and then drag a slider. Some have 'dummy' physical buttons or even dummy 'disc slots' but require you to use the touchscreen interface Anyway although I was still considering those, when this particular deal came up it was a no-brainer for a BNIB unit.
So finally a completed audio project! I also had some speaker mounts 3D printed for my Alfa... another project for another day
