Are ALL Forum Members to be Trusted?

[Nikhil]

Yubs clearly comprehension is not your forte.

You come here with your Sherlock Holmes approach and I respond as follows

Read the thread sir and if you do not understand and comprehend what has been laid bare I cannot help you.

Now had you deemed it appropriate to text me I would have explained it to you and equally assisted you in understanding such things as etiquette and the like.

You being serious?
Really?
WOW!

Seeing that post I thought the same lol, I was just struggling to put it as well versed as the above 

 

[Peter@AEW]

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't know any of the parties involved, and it's none of my business really...but I'd like to comment a few things. In no way am I defending the actions of Gizmo, like I said, I don't know him. I definitely enjoyed threads showcasing his work, and probably even suggested that some contact him for work/advice. Neither am I questioning the integrity of Peter or Moose. Frankly I think that swapping parts is something I could never forgive in a customer-service provider relationship.

1. A lot of members have been commenting along the lines of "swapping parts is not a mistake." By definition, a mistake is something that was done that was wrong. I don't think Gizmo is claiming that this was an accident, but rather that in hindsight he realises that he was wrong in doing what he did. Perhaps you question his motives in doing so, that's the prerogative of every forumite, past/potential customers, and those with administrative responsibilities on the forum. He shouldn't be demonized for his diction.

2. In his earlier reply, Gizmo said: "Just need some clarification on something, explain to me how is it that after everything you and moose knew about me 5years ago didn't stop you two from continuing to use my service free of charge for the last couple years?"
If that is true, then I'm afraid that that calls into question the motives behind putting this into the public forum. They don't owe us an explanation, but I think if the admins/mods of the forum intend to take action based on this thread then it's something to consider.

This is not really a question of right and wrong; it's very clear that what Gizmo did was wrong and he appears to acknowledge that. Now it's a case of deciding his future as part of BMW Fanatics, and for reparations between Moose and Gizmo. I don't believe the latter is anybody's business besides those directly involved.

---

One more thing, since there have been more posts while I was typing my last post:

Exposing someone's wrongdoing is not blackmail...even if it was 20 years later, it doesn't matter.

---

The reason this came about is due to the fact that I was instructed to tell my boy Moose that blackmail does not work.
I asked what it was all about and was told.Upon finding out I brought it to the forums attention after notifying Gizmo that I would.

I guess you would have seen that had you read the thread from the start.

 

[FiRi@Rennzport]

@bman nothing to say?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

 

[Nikhil]

@bman nothing to say?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Maybe he also got some swindled parts on his car

 

[///Moose]

So there is has been alot said in this thread.
What Gizmo did was, by his own admission, inexcusable.
But what I would like to know is:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it?
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light?
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? 
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed?
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing? 

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

I am not a Gizmo fan boy. I have used his services twice on my 320d and the work he did was excellent and well priced. 

I have to agree with what is written above. Why the need to raise this issue now some 5yrs down the line? What's the back story? Why is this NOW suddenly in the best interests of the Fanatics Forum... 

Moose, where's your additional input on this?

We've read "there's more information" so why the cloak and dagger.

Airing of dirty laundry has started this morning so why not get it all out there so people are able to make an informed conclusion instead of being fed part of the info / circumstances.

@"WIDEOPN-X3"

I believe I’ve answered this already, thanks

 

[Jeremy.d]

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't know any of the parties involved, and it's none of my business really...but I'd like to comment a few things. In no way am I defending the actions of Gizmo, like I said, I don't know him. I definitely enjoyed threads showcasing his work, and probably even suggested that some contact him for work/advice. Neither am I questioning the integrity of Peter or Moose. Frankly I think that swapping parts is something I could never forgive in a customer-service provider relationship.

1. A lot of members have been commenting along the lines of "swapping parts is not a mistake." By definition, a mistake is something that was done that was wrong. I don't think Gizmo is claiming that this was an accident, but rather that in hindsight he realises that he was wrong in doing what he did. Perhaps you question his motives in doing so, that's the prerogative of every forumite, past/potential customers, and those with administrative responsibilities on the forum. He shouldn't be demonized for his diction.

2. In his earlier reply, Gizmo said: "Just need some clarification on something, explain to me how is it that after everything you and moose knew about me 5years ago didn't stop you two from continuing to use my service free of charge for the last couple years?"
If that is true, then I'm afraid that that calls into question the motives behind putting this into the public forum. They don't owe us an explanation, but I think if the admins/mods of the forum intend to take action based on this thread then it's something to consider.

This is not really a question of right and wrong; it's very clear that what Gizmo did was wrong and he appears to acknowledge that. Now it's a case of deciding his future as part of BMW Fanatics, and for reparations between Moose and Gizmo. I don't believe the latter is anybody's business besides those directly involved.

---

One more thing, since there have been more posts while I was typing my last post:

Exposing someone's wrongdoing is not blackmail...even if it was 20 years later, it doesn't matter.

---

The reason this came about is due to the fact that I was instructed to tell my boy Moose that blackmail does not work.
I asked what it was all about and was told.Upon finding out I brought it to the forums attention after notifying Gizmo that I would.

I guess you would have seen that had you read the thread from the start.

---

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So you're going to tell everyone who questions you to read the thread again? Because everyone should take your words as gospel? In making this thread you questioned Gizmo, and that was part of his reply. You might want to read the thread again and see that you have not responded to that at all. 

[/font]Like I said in my post, you and Moose don't owe the forum an explanation, but it's for the admins to consider because IF it is true then that brings your motives into question. So maybe instead of getting aggro with anyone who questions you (on the topic you raised), rather read with understanding. And if you still get excited by my post, read and reread until you understand that, like I very clearly said, I was not questioning your integrity. 

---

---

 

[nish_M240i]

After reading this whole thread, I only have one word : horrific

Selling someone's diff without their consent is honestly a crime. How can someone do that ? They trusting you enough to fix their cars but instead you aren't telling them things that they deserve to know and you not even asking for consent to do certain things which is totally unacceptable. This honestly raises so many questions about all the other repairs and services this guy has done for others and whether he did the same to them or not. This is highly unethical and unprofessional in my view.

Its unforgivable to sell a part of someone's hard earned possessions just for personal greed let alone without their consent. I know its my first year on this forum and I'm still learning a lot, but us fanatics on this forum are a family who always help each other out and give logical advice whenever its needed. There is honestly no need for liars and dishonest individuals on here which is why I agree with @"Rishie Rish" on a permanent bad.

He's lucky that this didn't go legally because it would have been much more worse. This is honestly criminal offense and its unforgivable. Yes, people do make mistakes but I'm sorry selling someone's diff without their consent is definitely not a mistake as it was a choice made just to earn extra money, its honestly fraud. I even ended up showing this to my father and he is absolutely horrified that things like this still happen these days even though this was 5 years back.

Like I said, we don't need individuals that are disonest and pick fights with others here.

 

[Peter@AEW]

Jeremy I know what Gizmo said.
I also know what I said

What I want to know is as follows: Why would I ask Gizmo if what Moose told me was the truth if I had previous knowledge of it as he alleges for the past 5 years and if I knew why is it that he would say no he did not swap the diff knowing that he and I had discussed it.

If I appear combative it is due to the fact that critical thinking seems to have evaporated into the ether and is never to be seen again.

In addition I should like to highlight another aspect which may easily get lost in the noise.

Whether my motive is honourable or not it still does not diminish the theft and betrayal of trust.
Whether I am a twisted psychopath or not it should not diminish the action of depriving a party of their property.
Not once but twice and from hearsay maybe more.

No offence extended or implied

 

[camzm3]

1 = Ban
2 = online reviews on said WORKSHOP detailing above
3 = open a case of theft
4 = tracing of all clients for further investigation

My opinion... it is not ok... especially when you have the trust of an entire forum

 

[Jeremy.d]

Jeremy I know what Gizmo said.
I also know what I said

What I want to know is as follows: Why would I ask Gizmo if what Moose told me was the truth if I had previous knowledge of it as he alleges for the past 5 years and if I knew why is it that he would say no he did not swap the diff knowing that he and I had discussed it.

If I appear combative it is due to the fact that critical thinking seems to have evaporated into the ether and is never to be seen again.

In addition I should like to highlight another aspect which may easily get lost in the noise.

Whether my motive is honourable or not it still does not diminish the theft and betrayal of trust.
Whether I am a twisted psychopath or not it should not diminish the action of depriving a party of their property.
Not once but twice and from hearsay maybe more.

No offence extended or implied

---

I'm by no means saying that your response doesn't make sense. The question you raised based on that conversation would certainly imply that you had no knowledge. I'm not questioning that at all, Peter. All I'm saying is that if there is an element of malice to making this public, then that should have consequences as well. As stated, this is something that was supposedly left behind 5 years ago, and now it will undoubtedly affect his livelihood (most will agree that that is justifiable anyway). Again, I'm not saying there is any malice in it. I don't know you or Moose, but from the little bits I've seen and heard, you seem like good men. Likewise, no offense implied, but I think you understand my line of reasoning and why I say that that is something to be considered (by admins, not me or anyone else). I'm just calling for those in administrative roles to consider all things objectively.

On the second point, I agree with you. He did what he did and should face the consequences for what he did, whatever those may be...even if this was done with the worst of intentions.

Cheers, Peter. 

That's all I wanted to say on the matter, and I don't plan on engaging this thread again. 
And apologies to Peter, Moose, and even Gizmo if anything I said was taken to be offensive. 

---

 

[Peter@AEW]

Jeremy allow me this opportunity to respond and answer your question as to why this came about now.

I have on many occasions sheltered Gizmo to the extend of forumites referring to him as my step child.

I am 64 years old so you can see the connection in the above.

Gizmo thought it appropriate to demean Moose by referring to him as "my boy"
He equally thought it prudent to invite me to chastise Moose for Moose extending offense to him in a separate chat.
He also chose to lie to me throughout our chat.
He was warned prior to me posting and chose to ignore my guidance.

My thinking after much reflection was whether I should divulge that which I had learned or keep quiet.

My conclusion was to divulge it based on the following facts.
Warren was not contrite
Warren was arrogant 
Warren was dismissive of Moose who is the victim of wrongdoing
Warren does not learn from past mistakes or he would have been truthful with me.

As to the moderators deliberating their next step and having to give attention to the detail thank you for encouraging me through your questioning to elaborate further.

I trust that the above gives you insight.

 

[TurboLlew]

Catching up on some of the comments: Imagine stealing a diff off a very low mileage customer's car for whatever reason. The owner then finds out and doesn't break your knees or lay charges or hire hitmen or even want to take bread off your table... Surely you're thanking your lucky stars and turn over a new leaf immediately and do your best to keep this guy happy?

Fast forward to 5 YEARS LATER and you're getting hot under the collar on whatsapp of all things for whatever reason. This same guy that caught you stealing from him red handed is somehow coexisting with you in a group. You feel like it is unfair of him to remind you of your dodginess... the same guy who STILL doesn't want to out you. Over this one comment, you are so aggrieved that you then go and (effectively) incriminate and blackmail yourself (whilst accusing others of blackmailing and accusing you) because you have to have the last word and can't handle being wrong...

Is there any self-aware person who would do this? This was a totally unforced situation which is what I find amazing. This must be the most self-destructive chain of events I've seen unfold in real life. Either way, I don't think Gizmo will lose his supporters... but you can bet they will be checking and double checking in future even if they do go back.

Ego is a terrible thing... this could have been handled SO MUCH BETTER with some maturity.

This is not the only person involved in such things - more will surface now after this thread I'm sure.

 

[Ralf*]

Catching up on some of the comments: Imagine stealing a diff off a very low mileage customer's car for whatever reason. The owner then finds out and doesn't break your knees or lay charges or hire hitmen or even want to take bread off your table... Surely you're thanking your lucky stars and turn over a new leaf immediately and do your best to keep this guy happy?

Fast forward to 5 YEARS LATER and you're getting hot under the collar on whatsapp of all things for whatever reason. This same guy that caught you stealing from him red handed is somehow coexisting with you in a group. You feel like it is unfair of him to remind you of your dodginess... the same guy who STILL doesn't want to out you. Over this one comment, you are so aggrieved that you then go and (effectively) incriminate and blackmail yourself (whilst accusing others of blackmailing and accusing you) because you have to have the last word and can't handle being wrong...

Is there any self-aware person who would do this? This was a totally unforced situation which is what I find amazing. This must be the most self-destructive chain of events I've seen unfold in real life. Either way, I don't think Gizmo will lose his supporters... but you can bet they will be checking and double checking in future even if they do go back.

Ego is a terrible thing... this could have been handled SO MUCH BETTER with some maturity.

This is not the only person involved in such things - more will surface now after this thread I'm sure.

@"TurboLlew" raise:

I have read, then gone back, and re-read the entire thread of "he said-she said", and was slowly formulating my own response or 10cents worth
But
after reading your response, I think we are on the same wavelength here.

Gizmo's indescretions aside, his technical knwoledge and forum advice he has can still be very usefull to the forum, even if the forum-ites don't utilize his actual service.
The forum doesn't exist only to drum up business for your own workshop, but also a place to
1) Admire the brand
2) Get technical advice, ( and I believe that Gizmo's technical knowledge is invaluable for the internet forum)
3) Physically requesting Gizmo to do the actual work....(which is in essence OFF FORUM) then this thread will be a warning to beware

In the same way that an Ex-Con will always be an Ex-Con, the workmanship and knowledge doesn't die, just the physical trust in the work itself

 

[Rayzor]

Catching up on some of the comments: Imagine stealing a diff off a very low mileage customer's car for whatever reason. The owner then finds out and doesn't break your knees or lay charges or hire hitmen or even want to take bread off your table... Surely you're thanking your lucky stars and turn over a new leaf immediately and do your best to keep this guy happy?

Fast forward to 5 YEARS LATER and you're getting hot under the collar on whatsapp of all things for whatever reason. This same guy that caught you stealing from him red handed is somehow coexisting with you in a group. You feel like it is unfair of him to remind you of your dodginess... the same guy who STILL doesn't want to out you. Over this one comment, you are so aggrieved that you then go and (effectively) incriminate and blackmail yourself (whilst accusing others of blackmailing and accusing you) because you have to have the last word and can't handle being wrong...

Is there any self-aware person who would do this? This was a totally unforced situation which is what I find amazing. This must be the most self-destructive chain of events I've seen unfold in real life. Either way, I don't think Gizmo will lose his supporters... but you can bet they will be checking and double checking in future even if they do go back.

Ego is a terrible thing... this could have been handled SO MUCH BETTER with some maturity.

This is not the only person involved in such things - more will surface now after this thread I'm sure.

@"TurboLlew" raise:

I have read, then gone back, and re-read the entire thread of "he said-she said", and was slowly formulating my own response or 10cents worth
But
after reading your response, I think we are on the same wavelength here.

Gizmo's indescretions aside, his technical knwoledge and forum advice he has can still be very usefull to the forum, even if the forum-ites don't utilize his actual service.
The forum doesn't exist only to drum up business for your own workshop, but also a place to
1) Admire the brand
2) Get technical advice, ( and I believe that Gizmo's technical knowledge is invaluable for the internet forum)
3) Physically requesting Gizmo to do the actual work....(which is in essence OFF FORUM) then this thread will be a warning to beware

In the same way that an Ex-Con will always be an Ex-Con, the workmanship and knowledge doesn't die, just the physical trust in the work itself

Would you take the advice of a dishonest man? I surely wont, Gizmo's apology and request for sympathy is unfortunately not enough. He knew what he was doing back then, as he knows what he is doing now. I have been a long time member on this community and have witnessed many times where Gizmo and his followers blasted members for picking facts about him or is work, this resulted in him been banned on several occasions. 
Most people are taught growing up to stay away from bad influences. Gizmo is clearly a bad influence with is deceitful and roguish ways and should be banned finish and kla, Other members have been banned for for less, so it is only fitting.

 

[Yuben]

@"Yubz 1 - GP"
I shall comment on the questions directed at me:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it? I’ve answered this above
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light? Approx 4-5 months after it happened
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? Correction, I’ve not utilized Gizmo’s services since shortly after the issue where he already had a part that needed fitted for an Aircon fix, he offered he’s hour’s labour for this and to remove a tracking device while I sat there waiting while he did it.
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed? I’ve answered this above
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing?

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Morning Moose, thanks for your clarity, at least it adds more context. My questions posed was for the benefit of the forumites.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In no way will I ever condone what happened to you.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]What Gizmo did is shocking and is something I would not have expected from who I have dealt with on many occasions in the past.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]My post was made while you responded so some of my questions were already answered by you and thanks for that.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Your reason for not wanting to out Gizmo is noted and I understand and respect your rationale.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Cheers[/font]

 

[TurboLlew]

Catching up on some of the comments: Imagine stealing a diff off a very low mileage customer's car for whatever reason. The owner then finds out and doesn't break your knees or lay charges or hire hitmen or even want to take bread off your table... Surely you're thanking your lucky stars and turn over a new leaf immediately and do your best to keep this guy happy?

Fast forward to 5 YEARS LATER and you're getting hot under the collar on whatsapp of all things for whatever reason. This same guy that caught you stealing from him red handed is somehow coexisting with you in a group. You feel like it is unfair of him to remind you of your dodginess... the same guy who STILL doesn't want to out you. Over this one comment, you are so aggrieved that you then go and (effectively) incriminate and blackmail yourself (whilst accusing others of blackmailing and accusing you) because you have to have the last word and can't handle being wrong...

Is there any self-aware person who would do this? This was a totally unforced situation which is what I find amazing. This must be the most self-destructive chain of events I've seen unfold in real life. Either way, I don't think Gizmo will lose his supporters... but you can bet they will be checking and double checking in future even if they do go back.

Ego is a terrible thing... this could have been handled SO MUCH BETTER with some maturity.

This is not the only person involved in such things - more will surface now after this thread I'm sure.

@"TurboLlew" raise:

I have read, then gone back, and re-read the entire thread of "he said-she said", and was slowly formulating my own response or 10cents worth
But
after reading your response, I think we are on the same wavelength here.

Gizmo's indescretions aside, his technical knwoledge and forum advice he has can still be very usefull to the forum, even if the forum-ites don't utilize his actual service.
The forum doesn't exist only to drum up business for your own workshop, but also a place to
1) Admire the brand
2) Get technical advice, ( and I believe that Gizmo's technical knowledge is invaluable for the internet forum)
3) Physically requesting Gizmo to do the actual work....(which is in essence OFF FORUM) then this thread will be a warning to beware

In the same way that an Ex-Con will always be an Ex-Con, the workmanship and knowledge doesn't die, just the physical trust in the work itself

Would you take the advice of a dishonest man? I surely wont, Gizmo's apology and request for sympathy is unfortunately not enough. He knew what he was doing back then, as he knows what he is doing now. I have been a long time member on this community and have witnessed many times where Gizmo and his followers blasted members for picking facts about him or is work, this resulted in him been banned on several occasions. 
Most people are taught growing up to stay away from bad influences. Gizmo is clearly a bad influence with is deceitful and roguish ways and should be banned finish and kla, Other members have been banned for for less, so it is only fitting.

I hate saying this so often but this sometimes this place looks like Honda and Subaru 2.0... with the glorification of competence as wizardry.

There is no secret sauce or magic to cars - yes there is knowledge to be shared and there are things like eg: the V10s where the community has cumulatively developed care guidelines beyond replacing entire sub-systems of the car at once - again the effort of talented people, but not some arcane knowledge that lives with one person. Skill means nothing if it is coupled with ANY risk of theft. Rather let someone make a mistake and break something than steal. 

I don't know what will encourage people to share this knowledge more freely - I think some might be worried their help posts will be construed as advertising... remember a lot of that content was posted as an advertiser without the concerns others might have. I am sure more than a few posters have been sent that PM asking or warning about advertising, as well as advertisers complaining about posts. Others worry about criticism... its not easy putting this out there especially on a forum filled with people who will find something to find fault with or know someone who would have done it better etc...

They will actively discuss things on whatsapp or be on the phone for hours... but won't post anything. There is knowledge transfer between us but it is not scaled. I think of the conversations I've had with Nikhil and shopping for E3x/46 cars. He will sometimes post helping someone but not actively.

Anyway one or two individuals are not the only sources of this knowledge. It is engineering and science - not witchcraft. We must learn the difference between acknowledging good work and competence vs. creating messiahs. Even I realise I have done this with eg: JSN - we are just so used to getting rubbish that simply receiving something you paid for as-expected makes you so happy. 

How many cars were sold here at a premium because it went to Gizmo for maintenance? Gizmo's maintenance that was so 'magical' that it could improve the value of a R70K car to 90K if the owner spent 20K in maintenance on it - people who called anyone out on this were negative repped, had posts deleted, were 'derailing threads' etc - it is sickening thinking about it. On the other hand, how many cars were sold by fanatics, ended up at Gizmo and he poked holes in it and brought the seller and previous tuner into disrepute? It is not one or two you see on the forum aired publicly.

Still I don't understand: Gizmo was back and posting. Nobody was fighting or causing kak. The person who actually suffered was happy to leave things be... but it wasn't enough to just shut up when there was a 'reminder' comment about ethics. Nobody knew what that was about and it would have been forgotten in the next 200 messages on the group in due course... now everyone knows because you had to poke the bear and questions that would never have been asked otherwise are now not even questions anymore. I hope the dopamine hit was worth it.

I told Kish this is our collective PTSD from these actions we have all been affected by from other tuners. Hearing that someone who people trusted and recommended is doing the same will always trigger this.

 

[///Moose]

@"Yubz 1 - GP"

No worries bud, happy to provide any further clarity required for the benefit of all.
I can relate to your experience in dealing with Gizmo previously considering that I was utilizing his services since 2010 without the slightest idea of what was going on so you can imagine the shock when I eventually found out ??‍♂️

 

[Tinuva]

I read everything again and I must admit Gizmo ****ed up...royally. Looks like his ego and arrogance got the best of him eventually now. And it is really sad, because I really enjoy his build threads.

As for the title of this thread...and this is my own personal opinion is: no.

I find it very difficult to trust anyone, heck I don't trust taking my cars to any shop in fact. I wish I could do all the work on my cars myself. Its really not ability that is the problem, more so time. Because of time, rather spending with family you have to neglect time on something else. So the choice to take a car to a shop for a service. Something you can do yourself at home. Let's be honest, its not rocket science. This part swapping happens all the time, even at reputable dealers. You can for the most part, only trust yourself in this world, and I want to say family and good friends...but there are exceptions.

Took my Nissan 1400 bakkie for a service long time ago, and one of the things to be done was to replace the seal on the diff.

Get back home, after a few days it leaks worse than ever. Take a look there myself and looks like it was hammered back into place and in the process completely deformed. It would never seal again. I drove that same day back very upset and the manager was like whats going on. So calmed down, told him and asked why a hammer was used to put the back of the diff back in. He literally went down on the floor and saw what it looked like. At least in this case there was accountability taken.

So, should we trust anyone and everyone on the forum? No. (again this is my own personal opinion)
This goes pretty much for almost all people in the world. Just look at the news, fathers raping their own toddler girls. Family relative raping girls. Fathers shooting the whole family before killing himself.

Bad people are walking the earth, and they come in all shapes, colors and forms. So when you find good people, keep that relationship healthy and avoid the rest.

 

[Yuben]

Yubs clearly comprehension is not your forte.

You come here with your Sherlock Holmes approach and I respond as follows

Read the thread sir and if you do not understand and comprehend what has been laid bare I cannot help you.

Now had you deemed it appropriate to text me I would have explained it to you and equally assisted you in understanding such things as etiquette and the like.

You being serious?
Really?
WOW!

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Peter, I will not stoop to your condescending level in my response to you.[/font]
[/font][/size]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]My questions were asked to offer clarity for myself as well as for those that also needed it.[/font][/font][/size]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Moose started off by apologizing for making this a public issue. In your opening post you did not make mention of whether Moose asked you to post this public. So did you do it against his wishes or without his knowledge?[/font][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I know you have made it abundantly clear on many occasions that you do not approve of me being a Moderator and that I am a poor Moderator.[/font][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I'm sorry you feel that way.[/font][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I'm not sure if you are feeling that I am trying to defend Gizmo's actions in any way, cos that is certainly not the case. Honesty, ethics, integrity should be the ethos of every workshop and that clearly lacked from Gizmo's side and also for others that co-exist on this forum.[/font][/font][/size]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I can jog you 64 year old memory to events that took place in the past where workshops ethics were questioned as well but that would just derail this thread.[/font][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Lastly, I acknowledge you PM  and note that I had no desire to call or text you and lose 30-60 mins of my life last night by listening to you when the crux of thread was already determined as to what transpired between Moose and Gizmo.[/font][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Cheers[/font][/font][/size]

 

[NBN]

"Sorry" works when a mistake is made not when trust is broken. Gizmo has broken the trust of this community one to many times, always promising changed behaviour but as @"TurboLlew" has pointed out, non of this wouldve come to light, had his EGO not been bruised.

This will be my last message in this thread but would like to ask you to consider this......
a) Would you support a chop shop, where stolen parts can be gotten for discounted prices?
b) Do you honestly think that these issues have only affected Moose and his uncle?
c) Its the first time there's a "Gizmo" issue and his "Fanboys" havent come to plead his brilliance and innocence blah blah blah