Are ALL Forum Members to be Trusted?

[that_guy_Ettiene]

I do not like being lied too or being used.
I like cars, I love the brand and if someone uses my enthusiasm and love for something to steal from or abuse me in any way shape or form, that cannot be forgiven.

It doesn't matter how your where caught out, when it happened or which members where involved, doing something like this harms the community, the forum and taints what it means to be part of this family.



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[Peter@AEW]

I ask that you give me some time. it took me all afternoon to type my previous response and there is so much more typing involved to clear the air.
Im no good at typing and don't particularly care for it. Spoken word is far better for me, always has been.

If Peter did not have all those messages and screenshots, would the response have been to deny everything, accuse Moose of lying and then have supporters come up in defense? I guess we won't know the real answer.

Llew as you propose if the "black and white" was not available the whole matter would have been refuted.

May I also add that when I asked whether he had changed the diff as Moose stated to me his immediate and consistent response throughout the chat was that he had not.
This is a point worth noting.
For as long as he thought that I had no knowledge or evidence directly of the transgression his default position was to lie.

What makes one think that he would have behaved any differently on this forum if it were merely an "unsubstantiated" accusation.

Surely one does not make a mistake when one steals parts off a car. One makes a mistake when one breaks parts on a car.
Theft is a malicious willful action to deprive one of his possessions.

For anyone to propose that a leopard can change its spots all I have to say is Wishful thinking.

 

[FiRi@Rennzport]

I do not like being lied too or being used.
I like cars, I love the brand and if someone uses my enthusiasm and love for something to steal from or abuse me in any way shape or form, that cannot be forgiven.

It doesn't matter how your where caught out, when it happened or which members where involved, doing something like this harms the community, the forum and taints what it means to be part of this family.



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100%

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[Tinuva]

Llew as you propose if the "black and white" was not available the whole matter would have been refuted.

May I also add that when I asked whether he had changed the diff as Moose stated to me his immediate and consistent response throughout the chat was that he had not.
This is a point worth noting.
For as long as he thought that I had no knowledge or evidence directly of the transgression his default position was to lie.

What makes one think that he would have behaved any differently on this forum if it were merely an "unsubstantiated" accusation.

Surely one does not make a mistake when one steals parts off a car. One makes a mistake when one breaks parts on a car.
Theft is a malicious willful action to deprive one of his possessions.

For anyone to propose that a leopard can change its spots all I have to say is Wishful thinking.

I like to believe I am someone that has changed, and that is why I do give others the same benefit of the doubt. Made some very bad mistakes in my life long long ago, much further than 5 years, more like 20+ ago. It stays with you, forever but I believe since I haven't done anything again in this time I have changed. It just stays something you have to remember to never to, but keep on remembering.

I didn't say that is true in this case, but I did point out earlier in this post someone's point is true if someone doesn't change.

Thus far, I am not 100% certain we have the whole truth in this thread, but then also, it doesn't look like we will have and so we have to go with what is here unfortunately.

 

[Nikhil]

This is actually disgusting, all the response tells me is that you are sorry to have gotten caught and if the above wasnt presented by the individuals of high moral standing on the forum it would have been denied completely.

Swapping a diff out from a customers car for financial and personal benefit on 2 occasions is not a mistake.

A client paying for a new part and you fitting a used part and then billing them for a new part is not a mistake.

Paying for M3 discs and fitting 330 discs instead is not a mistake.

You sir are a criminal and compulsive liar and have used this platform to steal and loot based on false trust that you have created amongst a community and are no better than a con artist.

How many other people had the same done to them and did not find out? How many people had the same done to them but couldn't speak out in fear of outlash from the fan club and yourself?

I've read multiple of your threads over the years and they always call out other mechanics or workshops or engine builders. Dishonesty, shoddy workmanship ect... pot calling the kettle black hey? Or were these findings manipulated to get business and bill customers exorbitant amounts portraying yourself as Fanatics gift to BMW.

Whatever work you have done historically be it a flawless execution on not will be brought into question.

You've been given many opportunities to change and it always ends the same way... a long winded thread on the forum, flared tempers, bruised egos and a moderator's thread in the background debating your future on the platform.

Offer a proper sincere apology, come to an agreement with the impacted parties by settling on the agreed terms and then leave this platform as it's no longer the place for you anymore

 

[Peter@AEW]

David what more do you need to know the whole truth.
Other than having been an observer to the theft of the diff the texts that have been presented lay out a definitive account of the events.

In addition had Warren not scratched at the group chat it is likely that Moose would have kept quiet about Warrens transgression.

May I equally add that had Warren not sent me the message "tell your boy Moosa" I would not have gotten involved and found out about the transgression.

When you say that we do not know the truth 100% how much more truth does one require than what has already been presented?

Anyway I hope you find the truth.

As to people changing I shall concede that there are occasions where it does happen however folk sayings are deeply routed in the collective knowledge of life and are generally accurate.

I am genuinely glad to hear of your changed circumstances and approach to life.

 

[Nick]

Hectic.
When we find people like this in the corporate motor trade we black list their names across all the brands and groups.
You'd be lucky to wash cars again under a brands name...

 

[Wes]

Hindsight is 20/20 and it's all good and well to come with your hat in your hand after the fact, but if the story didn't come out, then Warren would still be riding his high horse with his merry band of followers coming to his defence as had happened before.

I'm glad this all came to light and regardless of the fact that some of his work (especially regarding his personal cars) is very good, Warren's reputation has gone the same way as Jerry's and is now effectively toast.

So to those that still need/want his services, it's buyer beware. But as the saying goes, fool me once..

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[ChefDJ]

Makes you wonder about how much all the "epic" project cars that Gizmo has had were built with honest workmanship or with stolen parts. We all drooled over the projects wishing we had the same. Well, some of you may very well have had the same before you sent your car to him.

Most of you know I am by no means a Gizmo fan. His work can be great although all his content may now be viewed under a different light. On the contrary the guy hates me because I'm the one who actioned his last ban which was supposed to be final. That ban resulted from what seems to be the same problem here - a blow to the ego.

Like others have mentioned, had Gizmo not kept quiet regarding the issue in a whatsapp group, Moosa would never have needed to comment what he did, delivering that blow to the ego. Then Gizmo goes and posts "tell your boy..." to Peter. That's just looking for kak.

He must lie in his bed the way he made it. His business will surely take a knock. His reputation definitely has, if not by the past instances of drama then definitely by this one.

Does him still being allowed here not endorse his actions? I'm glad not to be part of that forum staff discussion right now.

 

[///Moose]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this Gizmo, it is however a pity that once again your explanation is filled with excuses, seeking sympathy and looking for reasons to blame someone else, in this case it’s Peter.

To provide further context to some of the responses around why this has only surfaced now and questioning the validity of my facts provided - As mentioned previously, a recent discussion occurred on another group whereby Gizmo openly accused another fanatic’s integrity, I merely said to Gizmo that he’s accusations are still better than mechanics that strip off parts from their customers cars without their knowledge.
Gizmo promptly left the group and I said that I won’t discuss this issue further in he’s absence as he wouldn’t have an opportunity to state his case.

The discussion stopped there and Gizmo then contacted me privately to discuss the matter whereby I responded by saying that he shouldn’t point a finger when there’s 4 pointing back at him.
I subsequently left it at that only to receive a message from Peter where Gizmo is accusing me of blackmail and that Peter should speak to his boy (quite respectful of him considering that he stole from me but nonetheless, since then I’ve also been referred to as F**ker by Gizmo so not surprised).

I then continued to explain the events that occurred to Peter, please note this was following Gizmo’s request to Peter to do so.

I’d also like to address the point around why I didn’t raise this issue on the forum back in 2015 when it occurred - I consider myself as God fearing, not perfect, not religious and by no means a saint.
Based on this I felt that my experience was merely a learning for me and I wouldn’t want to take bread off anyone’s table by slandering Gizmo on a public platform, I still tried to find excuses and reasons in my mind that could perhaps have drove him to do the things he did.
I made peace with it and I’m thankful that I eventually learnt from this and if ever I was asked to specifically refer someone to Gizmo I would respond by saying be cautious in your dealings.
I honestly have no grudge against Gizmo even though his actions are distasteful, I felt more bad for the relative and many customers that I previously referred to him.
To provide further insight on Ridwaan’s case - Ridwaan is approaching 60yrs of age, self employed, spends around 12-16hrs a day on the road to provide for his family. He purchased the  car with the intention to eventually hand it over to he’s son upon his graduation, I felt responsible for what had occurred as I know their circumstance and I even offered to pay for his repairs.
To date neither I or Ridwaan have been offered any financial remuneration from Gizmo to remedy his actions, to date the only remediation offered and completed was an hours labour on one of my cars at the time where he had a part required for an Aircon fix.

To conclude, this issue raised it’s head once again when Gizmo started accusing me of blackmail, swearing and questioning my version of what occurred.
Furthermore, Peter only got involved at Gizmo’s request to pass a message to me.

Happy to answer anything further from anyone to provide the clarity required on this matter and based on the responses I am glad that this has eventually surfaced, I wish I had raised it sooner in the hope of saving another fanatic from experiencing the same.

 

[AshG108]

Flabbergasted!

@"Gizmo" you had one chance to clear the air yet you spend an entirety to type up something that means nothing but a response to Peter which you could have actually "as you say - face to face is better" done it over the phone.

And you have apologized for nothing, given no facts or guidance on the topics at hand. Yet, you think everyone will roll over and let you pet their tummies after your actions that were revealed in the most humorous fashion might I add..as the saying goes about Karma..you know it by now.

I personally met both Moose and Peter...both pretty good chaps...Peter is straight as an arrow...and Moose is a humble and forgiving chap...and even if they were any different...those 30 year relationships should have guided you to different actions.

You actually sank your own ship by disrespecting someone in third person language...that alone gives people am image of yourself let alone your diff-related stories.

I think a lot of truth has been said by many, fellow forumites above...you had one chance and you blew it...not sure how you going to come back from this but like a few previous cases of people on the forum that assumed they were needed here and were not actually needed...we easily said goodbye and please don't let the door handle catch you on the way out.

Its really sad and disappointing as I was really impressed with your recent threads and builds...damn it.

 

[ChefDJ]

Moosa you have no obligation to explain yourself. A lot of us have met you in person even if only briefly like myself, and your character speaks more for you than your humbled self may.

The one who should be explaining why this has now come to light is Gizmo. Frankly he should be begging for this community to hear him out. Thievery is not a mistake.

 

[AshG108]

Moosa you have no obligation to explain yourself. A lot of us have met you in person even if only briefly like myself, and your character speaks more for you than your humbled self may.

The one who should be explaining why this has now come to light is Gizmo. Frankly he should be begging for this community to hear him out. Thievery is not a mistake.

I truly second you on this, you said it tons better than I would.

Moosa is a gentleman and a humble person at that too.... raise:

 

[Yuben]

So there is has been alot said in this thread.
What Gizmo did was, by his own admission, inexcusable.
But what I would like to know is:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it?
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light?
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? 
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed?
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing? 

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[NBN]

I don't understand why Gizmo is always given numerous 'second chances' can we as a forum and community agree that dishonesty and stealing is not condoned here especially when there's no remorse, apathy, sense of atonement. His response was to play the victim as he had always done and talk down to members of this forum on countless occasions. I'm surprised not one of his many 'fan boys' have to come to his defence this time


I say let his lifelong and permanent ban be affected with immediate effect.

 

[WIDEOPN-X5]

So there is has been alot said in this thread.
What Gizmo did was, by his own admission, inexcusable.
But what I would like to know is:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it?
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light?
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? 
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed?
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing? 

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

I am not a Gizmo fan boy. I have used his services twice on my 320d and the work he did was excellent and well priced. 

I have to agree with what is written above. Why the need to raise this issue now some 5yrs down the line? What's the back story? Why is this NOW suddenly in the best interests of the Fanatics Forum... 

Moose, where's your additional input on this?

We've read "there's more information" so why the cloak and dagger.

Airing of dirty laundry has started this morning so why not get it all out there so people are able to make an informed conclusion instead of being fed part of the info / circumstances.

 

[Rishie Rish]

So there is has been alot said in this thread.
What Gizmo did was, by his own admission, inexcusable.
But what I would like to know is:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it?
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light?
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? 
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed?
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing? 

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Theres no use wasting time to play lawyer, all those answers mean nothing in the end

The guy lied, he robbed forum members, nothing such as time of incident, cost of incident can justify his actions

This is not the first time there has being disputes, now the proof is here to see and theres nothing else to say but his toast

Remove him from this platform permanently!

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[///Moose]

@"Yubz 1 - GP"
I shall comment on the questions directed at me:

1) What vested interest does Peter have in this whole matter?
2) Why was Peter the news reporter?
3) Why didn't Moose expose Gizmo when he found out about it? I’ve answered this above
4) When did the transgression of 5 years ago first come to light? Approx 4-5 months after it happened
5) Why was Gizmo's services still used for couple of years by Moose and Peter free of charge? Correction, I’ve not utilized Gizmo’s services since shortly after the issue where he already had a part that needed fitted for an Aircon fix, he offered he’s hour’s labour for this and to remove a tracking device while I sat there waiting while he did it.
6) Is that not appalling also as it condoned Gizmo's actions and resulted in him being blackmailed? I’ve answered this above
7) Something is not adding up, Gizmo stood by Peter all the way through the famous M3 bearing debacle, where did things go South?
8) What is the main reason for Peter wanting to expose Gizmo after all this time t the extent of copying the link and adding it to a Gizmo thread?
9) Moose posted the screenshots where Gizmo admitted to him that he was wrong so how could he deny it after he put it writing?

 

[Peter@AEW]

Yubs clearly comprehension is not your forte.

You come here with your Sherlock Holmes approach and I respond as follows

Read the thread sir and if you do not understand and comprehend what has been laid bare I cannot help you.

Now had you deemed it appropriate to text me I would have explained it to you and equally assisted you in understanding such things as etiquette and the like.

You being serious?
Really?
WOW!

 

[Jeremy.d]

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't know any of the parties involved, and it's none of my business really...but I'd like to comment a few things. In no way am I defending the actions of Gizmo, like I said, I don't know him. I definitely enjoyed threads showcasing his work, and probably even suggested that some contact him for work/advice. Neither am I questioning the integrity of Peter or Moose. Frankly I think that swapping parts is something I could never forgive in a customer-service provider relationship.

1. A lot of members have been commenting along the lines of "swapping parts is not a mistake." By definition, a mistake is something that was done that was wrong. I don't think Gizmo is claiming that this was an accident, but rather that in hindsight he realises that he was wrong in doing what he did. Perhaps you question his motives in doing so, that's the prerogative of every forumite, past/potential customers, and those with administrative responsibilities on the forum. He shouldn't be demonized for his diction.

2. In his earlier reply, Gizmo said: "Just need some clarification on something, explain to me how is it that after everything you and moose knew about me 5years ago didn't stop you two from continuing to use my service free of charge for the last couple years?"
If that is true, then I'm afraid that that calls into question the motives behind putting this into the public forum. They don't owe us an explanation, but I think if the admins/mods of the forum intend to take action based on this thread then it's something to consider.

This is not really a question of right and wrong; it's very clear that what Gizmo did was wrong and he appears to acknowledge that. Now it's a case of deciding his future as part of BMW Fanatics, and for reparations between Moose and Gizmo. I don't believe the latter is anybody's business besides those directly involved.

---

One more thing, since there have been more posts while I was typing my last post:

Exposing someone's wrongdoing is not blackmail...even if it was 20 years later, it doesn't matter.