Interesting info about oil drain intervals

[Nic_s]

Well... since the head was redone in march the cars has been on the same oil en it's still pretty clean. Come to think of it, the oil has never seemed that bad until I get close to service.

What exactly does on do when you flush the engine?? Just poor the stuff in??

 

[Hellas]

I'm just too lazy to check your website for the appropriate product. What engine flus should I use for a) 320diesel and b) 1.4i VW Polo?

(See I also got some VW in me... kind of a hypocrite, I know...)

Engine Flush is universal so you can just use our standard Engine Flush.

Price: R54.32 Incl. VAT

What year is your Polo?

Mike

98 Classic with 238k on the dial. I'm confident in the engine since it's not using oil, but there are some oil sweat around the gearbox, and thus far I couldn't find someone to show me where to check the gearbox oil level. BTW would it be good to change the oil in the box too?

 

[SirSparky]

hi.my car she be e36 328i 1997 model with 180 000 kms on the clock

 

[Mike1]

Hello

I seemed to have missed this one... With regards to the Gearbox and diff oils.

Gearbox Oils are extremely extremely dodgy things :bs:
Its not really about the viscosity of the oil but more the performance rating and with gearboxes we have three ratings.

GL3, GL4 and GL5.

3 is lower performance and 5 is high performance.

If you put a GL4 into a gearbox thats calls for a GL5 you wont make it 2km and your gearbox will be fried...

The oils used in the gearbox also varies between vehicles so in order for me to suggest a oil I would need to know what car, engine and year the vehicle is.

Automatic transmissions for example use ATF fluid which although the same viscosity as a manual transmission fluid it will fry your manual box if you use it. So be careful....

________________________________________________________

I have spoken to Gary in JHB and he has said that the only store we have in P.E is being closed as the owner isnt paying his account.

If you are not from Cape Town then dont worry. I can courier whatever products you need. We also dont charge much for couriers as we get a special rate.

Well... since the head was redone in march the cars has been on the same oil en it's still pretty clean. Come to think of it, the oil has never seemed that bad until I get close to service.

What exactly does on do when you flush the engine?? Just poor the stuff in??

Basically you drive the car till the oil is hot (aka the car is at running temperature) then you switch the car off. And you pour the Engine Flush (300ml) into the oil and run the car idling for more or less 10-15 minutes.

Then you drain the oil and replace with fresh oil. Simple! :clap:

98 Classic with 238k on the dial. I'm confident in the engine since it's not using oil, but there are some oil sweat around the gearbox, and thus far I couldn't find someone to show me where to check the gearbox oil level. BTW would it be good to change the oil in the box too?

Alrighty...

When last was the gearbox oil changed? I do know that often VW will change the oil during a service... So it all depends when last it was done.

If you want to change the gearbox oil anyway you can use:

Gearbox Oil: (I assumed its a manual) : SAE 75W-90 GL4

Price: R127.28 Incl. VAT (1 Litre)

Hope that helps.

Mike

 

[SirSparky]

Hello Sir Sparky.

What BMW are you driving and what year would it be?

Mike

the car she be 328 e36 1997 with 180 000 kms on da clock

 

[Mike1]

hi.my car she be e36 328i 1997 model with 180 000 kms on the clock

Hello SirSparky

You can use Top Tec 4100 5W40 in your BMW:

http://www.sosoil.co.za/shop-more.php?pid=64

The price is on our online store.

Using the above oil in conjunction with the Hydraulic Lifter additive would solve your problems without the need for a thicker oil (Which may be causing more harm then good).

Hydraulic Lifter Additive:

http://www.sosoil.co.za/shop-more.php?pid=114

Both the above products can be bought on our online store.

Obviously also use an engine flush if possible...

Mike

 

[SirSparky]

do you have agents in blomfontein?

 

[Mike1]

Hello SirSparky

We do yes:

- Spares Link (Danie) : 057 357 1525 (In Welkom)
- Andres Auto Repairs (Andre) : 082 853 3898 (In Blomfontein)

If you dont come right there then please give me a shout and I can send it up to you. It will probably cost about R150 for overnight postage...

Mike

 

[wynandd]

The oil you are using is capable as you will have noticed of lubricating the engine of your vehicle. I just want to point out that it is a SL spec which means it is older technology. But it is a CF spec which means that yes. For use in Diesel it is top of the range. It also has no VW approvals (I couldnt find anything on google...) so lets hope nothing goes wrong with your BMW

Hi Mike, I see on the oil bottle it has a VW 505 01 spec, which is comparable to the BMW Longlife-04 requirement, according to your spec sheets. I would rather use your oil than the VW oil, though! Any progress on that number for the PE distributor?

 

[Mike1]

Hello

Look at my above post for numbers. IF you dont come right I will gladly send the products to you myself.

Mike

 

[Mike1]

Oh wait...

Sorry Wynandd.

I did make a post for you. But our distributor in PE is closing down so wont have stock. If you like I can send you the oil?

Mike

 

[wynandd]

Oh wait...

Sorry Wynandd.

I did make a post for you. But our distributor in PE is closing down so wont have stock. If you like I can send you the oil?

Mike

Thanks Mike! If I order, can you guys deliver in Cape Town? I'll get them to forward to me via company couriers.

---

BTW, are you looking for a distribution agent in PE? I'll gladly take on a little agency!

 

[Mike1]

Hello

I can gladly send the product to you via company couriers

Drop me a PM with your details:

Address
Name and Surname
Contact Numbers

And I will put the order through for you and we can arrange for the couriers.

With regards to the being a Liqui Moly Distributor you are in luck. Once I have your number etc I will forward it on to Gary (Manager of the JHB branch) and he will get into contact with you and we can go from there.

Mike

 

[BimmerMan]

Hi Mike

Thanks so much for all the info...it really is in-valuable!!!

Can I ask just a few questions?

In my 1995 E34 525I (254000KM) and my 1998 E38 740I (162000KM) I have been using Castrol GTX Magnatec 10W40. Is this the right oil to be using for highveld conditions? I am a little hesitant to use anything lighter in the 7 as the engine temp will sometimes get as high as 118C in stationary traffic in summer (this is obviously the coolant temp and not the oil temp). Surely an oil lighter than a 40 weight would start to break down at this temperature? As we never see temps as low as -20 on the highveld, would it be necessary to go any lower than a '10' rating for cold viscosity...?

Thanks so much
Rawdon

 

[Mike1]

Hello Bimmerman

Thanks for the question...

You have been using Castrol GTX Magnatec 10W40 with no issues. You could however use:

1995 E34 525I (254000KM):

Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 5W40 or Synthoil 5W40.

Data sheet for Top Tec 4100 (Recommended): http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/...ec 4100_EN.pdf/$file/3700 top tec 4100_EN.pdf

This product gives you extra protection on start up due to a lower viscosity but due to a very high pour point wont thin out or break up in Highveld temperatures.

1998 E38 740I (162000KM)

Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/...ec 4200_EN.pdf/$file/3706 Top Tec 4200_EN.pdf

With similar properties to the above oil you will find this to be a great oil in the BMW.

The Top Tec range is also a top spec range whereas the GTX range is a SL spec. Ideally you want a SM spec for the best lubrication and highest performance. The GTX data sheet for you to compare against:

http://www.davescybernetics.co.za/trd-tazz\GTX Magnatec.pdf

Also keep in mind that when you use a 5W30 etc you are getting either a hydrocracked or fully synthetic oil which is miles better than a conventional 20W50 mineral based oil.

Just something I want to touch on:

You should check that your coolant is mixed correctly? A thinner oil should if anything bring the engine temperature down. When last was the coolant changed on your BM's?

Also as mentioned already I would suggest an engine flush for when you change the oil especially on a BMW with highish mileage and with a few years of age.

I hope this helps.

Mike

 

[BimmerMan]

Hi Mike

Thanks once again for the info! I have an oil change coming up in less than 1000KM and I will def be giving my oil choice a lot of thought

On a side note, regarding the temperature...
The coolant in the my 7 Series has been replaced within the last 4 months at a Bosch garage, so I am hoping that they got the mix right :hammerhead:
The higher temps of these cars though, namely any BMW fitted with an M52 or M62 engine is about right. Due to tighter emissions standards in Germany, there engines were among the first in the world to be fitted with an electronic thermostat which allows greater control of the heating curve of the engine. Unlike an additional thermostat, the electronic one can continuosly vary it's 'open' angle to either allow the engine to run hotter or cooler...
Basically the car runs hotter when idling and cruising to reduce emissions and then runs cooler when at Wide Open Throttle to reduce pinking or knocking...
Im not sure if a lighter oil would have any effect on this as the DME would simply 'adjust' around it...

This was my only concern with going with a xxW30 oil. I think the 5W40 that you recommend has my name on it :clap:

 

[Mike1]

Thats some very interesting info there.

Let me know if you want me to send you some oil up. Will take a day or 2 to get to you...

Mike

 

[NastyZ28]

Hello Everyone

Michael here from SOS Oil in Cape Town. Thanks for inviting me Don.

Alright guys. Firstly (and without making assumptions) I just want to give everyone some background information on lubricants and oils in specific.

When looking at oils there are two things to consider:

1. Specification
2. Approvals

Specification:

This is extremely important. Different vehicles call for different oils based on their specifications. Lets see:

Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W30.

This means the following:

The oil is manufactured by: Liqui Moly
Its described as: Longtime High Tech

Thus far this really isnt important.... This however is:

5W30

This above is the VI rating of a oil. The 5 refers to the viscosity (Or thickness) of the oil when cold. Being a 5 it means it is rather thin when cold.

The 30 refers to the viscosity of the oil when hot.

Now: A 5w oil takes 7 seconds to circulate throughout the engine on start up. This means that in the first 7 seconds after startup your engine is running with no oil. Metal against metal :bawling:

SAE 5W-30?? But that's like REALLY thin oil? Isn't thicker considered better??

I use Shell Helix W20-50. Works out a bout R160 @ Masterparts.

If we look at the above post we realise why thicker isnt better. A 20W50 will take 1 and a half minutes to circulate in the engine. Once again. This means that for the first 1 and a half minutes of driving your vehicles engine is running with NO PROTECTION. Metal against metal.

Then to make it worse the oil thickens to a VI of 50. This means that you are putting extra stress on the engine.

Do you guys realise why it is so important to follow the manufacturers recommendations? If they call for a 5W30. You use a 5W30. So no... Thicker isnt always better. The reason you pay so little for the 20W50 is because its probably old spec and is mineral based.

Mineral based Oils are not the greatest when compared to that of a Synthetic. Synthetic Oils gives far superior protection and allow you a huge range of different operating temperatures and loads. Whereas the mineral oil doesnt. You pay for what you get...

The next important thing is the "performance" rating of a oil. The latest and top rating is the "SM Spec". If your oil has this API spec then it means you have the best quality oil available.

The Liqui Moly 5W30 Oil that Freerider is using is a SM spec oil with BMW approval. All newish cars should call for a SM spec. An SL spec for example would be an inferior oil.

Approvals:

Very, very important especially if your vehicle is still under warranty. The major manufacturers will test lubricants and approve them for usage in their vehicles.

No approval = Warranty Void if used.

The issue at hand:

I would like to know what type of oil they did the study on. I have researched oil quite a bit and have come to the conclusion that mineral oil is far inferior to the latest synthetic technology lubricants out there. Speaking of varnish deposits, as I have mentioned before on the "other" forum; I have been told by several people to stay away from Castrol and have actually seen a BMW motor with only about 180000K's on the clock, only ever serviced at the dealer (who uses Catrol exclusively) The deposits and stuff that looks like thick grease, covered the insides of the crank case and caused several oil galleries to clog up, resulting in massive terminal engine seizure! Sad

This is a big issue for us at the moment and Liqui Moly is actually in the progress of discussing and changing the lubrication with BMW because of this issue. We want them to use our oil rather/

**Disclaimer. I in no way am claiming the lubricants mentioned in this post are inferior to that of Liqui Moly. I am not degrading any brands. Simply explaining what went wrong**

The oil used in the above BMW is called: Castrol SLX 5w30.

It meets the recommendations as far as its VI ratings go (Being a 5w30) but its API/Performance rating is the issue.

Castrol SLX is a SL spec oil. Being used in a vehicle that requires a SM spec.

Thats where things go wrong as the technology in the oil (Even though it is a Fully synthetic) is old and it is unable to cope with the performance requirements. Throw in the extended service life and high JHB temperatures and the chemical qualities of the oil will break down as is the case above. A SM spec however would have been fine.

This results in sludge formation and damage to the engine. And the worst is that the Castrol oil has no approval by BMW (Another reason for its failure possibly) which means that the cars affected by the above issue have effectively lost their warranty :dropjaw:

The oil Freerider is using is my Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W30. This is a SM spec oil with LONGLIFE approval of up to 40 000km by BMW in Germany. Higher Spec with approvals. You cant go wrong. There is a huge difference between a normal oil and a Longlife Oil.

The Liqui Moly oil is Hydrocracked meaning its Sythetic (Not fully but more or less 90%). If you want a good oil this is a great option at a good price.

:clap:

In closing I feel that almost all oils are good. You just need to use the correct oil to obtain the ideal results.

If you want to see the specs of the two oils here we go:

Liqui Moly:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/...file/1136 Longtime High Tech SAE 5W-30_EN.pdf

Castrol:

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5237_SLX_Professional_OE_5W-30_119562_2007_10.pdf

The approvals are at the bottom of both data sheets. The API ratings are also on the first page of both.

For those wondering. Our oil costs: R338.06 Incl. VAT

I hope this has shed some light on oils and if anyone has any queries please feel free to ask.

Mike

*I like the new forum Don!*

Morning, all,

Howzit, Mike,

Did you read this when you registered on the forum:

"By registering on this discussion system you agree that you will not post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, sexually orientated, threatening or invasive of a person's privacy, or any other material which may violate any applicable laws."

1. 5w30 is not the VI of the oil, it is in fact the API (American Petroleum Institute) spec defined as "SAE crankcase viscosity number". the VI (viscosity index) of lets say a 40 monograde oil, is 15 centistokes @100 deg C based on the SAE assumptions.
2. "The 30 refers to the viscosity of the oil when hot." I won't dignify that with a reponse.
3. **Disclaimer. I in no way am claiming the lubricants mentioned in this post are inferior to that of Liqui Moly. I am not degrading any brands. Simply explaining what went wrong** - if that is so then i shouldn't go on correcting you:
4. CF is not the best spec for diesel engines. API spec has advanced since the dark ages and there are CH-4, CI-4 available and recommended by all major oil brands, and now even CJ spec in development. Low SAPS oils, it's of paramount importance to the life of a DPF engine.
5. "And the worst is that the Castrol oil has no approval by BMW". Get an approvals sheet, please, Mike. Such an untruth and blatant lie damages the Castrol AND BMW brand, I am a "using" supporter of both brands. Castrol has of late signed a 5-10 year deal with BMW to be the official approved oil - ask them, Castrol has even formulated BMW specific oil. If any oil company puts "BMW or any OEM approved on thier bottle, they will be faced with a heavy lawsuit. Do you know better than all the BMW dealerships that fill their oil tanks with Castrol? Why do they do this?Perhaps also enquire at the reputable independent BMW workshops - what oil do they use?
6. That SLX TDS is from Australia. G'day, mate!!!!! We are not in Australia. Ambient temperature per country differs, and therefore so do lubes requirements. Basic tribology. There is a specific formulation per geographical area that shares similar climatic conditions, hence varying API specs.
7. Sludge forms with any oil. Oil drain interval is the most important thing, as freerider outlined in his opening of this thread. Basically: drive your car "normally" at normal operating temps, and the recommended service interval suffices. That counts for mineral and synthetic oils, the latter providing a longer service interval.
Drive you car hard at high engine temps and you WILL need to shorten the drain interval. Mineral or synthetic. Ask a circuit racer why he drains his oil so frequently even after using synthetic.
Engine wear will always occur, the longer the drain interval, the more chance of sludge build-up. Lube prolongs the life of your engine.

I'm not trying to sell oil. I myself am an avid gearhead and regularly browse forums for tips and tricks wrt tuning and styling for my own vehicles. I attend various events not as a salesman but as a passionate. I too have been victim to forum mis-truths and this thread really irked me as incorrect lube info will shorten the life of an engine, and cause GREAT expense to the owner. I am in the oil industry, I won't hide that and yes I am associated to the Castrol brand.

If Liquimoly works for you then fine, I won't dissuade use thereof. It's your choice. Just please be careful as to what you believe to be true. Guys, don't accept everything at face value, be very skeptical about what you read, and do your own homework!!!!!!!

Cheers Boys......and girls:wave:

 

[Farmer]

Welcome Nasty :wave:

:dropjaw: Thats one hell of a first post :mmm:

 

[Mike1]

Morning

Welcome to the forum :wave:

1. 5w30 is not the VI of the oil, it is in fact the API (American Petroleum Institute) spec defined as "SAE crankcase viscosity number". the VI (viscosity index) of lets say a 40 monograde oil, is 15 centistokes @100 deg C based on the SAE assumptions.

Correct you are. I have confused myself, well spotted! :thinker:

2. "The 30 refers to the viscosity of the oil when hot." I won't dignify that with a reponse.

Any reason why not? When I use the term "hot" I am reffering to "at running temperature".

4. CF is not the best spec for diesel engines. API spec has advanced since the dark ages and there are CH-4, CI-4 available and recommended by all major oil brands, and now even CJ spec in development. Low SAPS oils, it's of paramount importance to the life of a DPF engine.

You are correct on this count. I decided to rather keep it simple as with your SM 505 01 505 02 etc approval it tends to get complicated. I have offered to recommend oils and in doing so will provide the people here with the best oil they can get even if it means recommending a brand other than Liqui Moly which I have done on numerous occassions. Remember that I work for an oil company and not just Liqui Moly. I know for example that Liqui Moly 20W50 is useless against its rivals... Hence why I recommend them and not Liqui Moly. Also. If a specific vehicle calls for a specific approval then I provide an oil with that approval. I care for others vehicles as if its my own. Anyone here that knows me can vouch for that.

5. "And the worst is that the Castrol oil has no approval by BMW". Get an approvals sheet, please, Mike. Such an untruth and blatant lie damages the Castrol AND BMW brand, I am a "using" supporter of both brands. Castrol has of late signed a 5-10 year deal with BMW to be the official approved oil - ask them, Castrol has even formulated BMW specific oil. If any oil company puts "BMW or any OEM approved on thier bottle, they will be faced with a heavy lawsuit. Do you know better than all the BMW dealerships that fill their oil tanks with Castrol? Why do they do this?Perhaps also enquire at the reputable independent BMW workshops - what oil do they use?

A very valid point. My response in which I posted that info was based on the data sheet I had acquired via the internet. I am sure you agree that often data sheets are outdated and the data sheet I referred to was in fact outdated but was the best I could find. Go onto Shells website and you will see even Shell Helix Ultra (A top mover) has a data sheet dated to 2006 and they have even revised their range :mmm:

Do you have a updated Data Sheet for me please? I would like to keep it on record.

6. That SLX TDS is from Australia. G'day, mate!!!!! We are not in Australia. Ambient temperature per country differs, and therefore so do lubes requirements. Basic tribology. There is a specific formulation per geographical area that shares similar climatic conditions, hence varying API specs.

Once again. It was the best I could find. The point i was trying to make by posting those two data sheets was in fact to highlight the approvals. Do you have a up to date data sheet for SLX you can post?

As far as I know SLX only has Longlife approval 98 spec whereas the Liqui Moly oil is a 04 spec which is better. In the context of the discussion we were having a 04 specced longlife oil is superior. If you can however post a data sheet with the BMW longlife approval that SLX has and it is equal or better then I will drop my case.

7. Sludge forms with any oil. Oil drain interval is the most important thing, as freerider outlined in his opening of this thread. Basically: drive your car "normally" at normal operating temps, and the recommended service interval suffices. That counts for mineral and synthetic oils, the latter providing a longer service interval.
Drive you car hard at high engine temps and you WILL need to shorten the drain interval. Mineral or synthetic. Ask a circuit racer why he drains his oil so frequently even after using synthetic.
Engine wear will always occur, the longer the drain interval, the more chance of sludge build-up. Lube prolongs the life of your engine.

Completely correct. I think Castrol SLX is a brilliant oil. My intention is not to knock the other brands.

But in the context of this discussion and faced with what BMW JHB has shown us, an oil with 04 Longlife approval seems to work better then Castrol SLX. For this reason we have a large amount of BMW dealers in JHB buying our oils now.

We found this to be quite a problem in JHB mostly and it is because of the extended service intervals up to 25 000km. The SLX oil is to my better understanding is not designed to be run for that long especially in a BMW which is considered a performance vehicle. The 04 longlife approval allows the Liqui Moly oil drain intervals of up to 40 000km. This offers greater stability and as you mentioned less chance of the oil to break down and end with sludge and poor performance.

Once again. Show me a up to date data sheet (Since I cant find one) that has a better spec then my Liqui Moly oil and I will gladly apologize and redo my original post.

I'm not trying to sell oil. I myself am an avid gearhead and regularly browse forums for tips and tricks wrt tuning and styling for my own vehicles. I attend various events not as a salesman but as a passionate. I too have been victim to forum mis-truths and this thread really irked me as incorrect lube info will shorten the life of an engine, and cause GREAT expense to the owner. I am in the oil industry, I won't hide that and yes I am associated to the Castrol brand.

I echo what you say as I am exactly the same. I am a complete petrol head and was asked to offer my thoughts. Nobody is perfect and I dont mind being corrected. My goal here is to provide the forum members with some basic info on oils.

Thanks for your thoughts. We need to get in contact as I would like to chat to you and share opinions.

Mike