Motorist goes on a Racist Rant

[dvst8]

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

 

[Ralf*]

But isn't a part of the problem of fuelling racial disparity? I agree it's a long discussion, but it's overlooked. We're reminded daily of our privilege, so again I ask you, what must we do about it? We've acknowledged it, now how do we share the benefits of privilege with those in need, other than through tax that gets wasted?

excellent thoughts

your statement almost feels like a plee or a cry for help, and I think many of us feel exactly this way

we innocent (whites) , apart from benefitting from a society created by the govt of the time, (I was too young to vote them in....in fact I was dragged to these shores by my parents (emigrated)), but grew up in this "priveledged society", a society that made "our" SA seem as a SAFE AND SECURE and economically viable country, but are made daily to feel guilty every day, and forever appologising,
many are tired of beeing made to feel guilty for the policies of the Govt before we were born, many are tired of being told to allow the country to go to a lower standard, a statement a few pages back,

there is crime everywhere, live with it, deal with it

from what we were accustomed too, to allow the same equal "priveledge" to exist across the board....but why must we "live with it" why must we "deal with it"

why couldnt the same level of prosperity, SAFETY AND SECURITY, that we "priveledged" were used to, be drawn across the full spectrum, without having to DOWNGRADE our lives, but UPLIFT all the lives

I think the Govt has failed in its duties, and all it has done has decided to redistirbute the wealth into their own pockets, because they feel they are "Entitled to it"
why would a Govt official feel he/she is entitled to a R1 Million BMW, or a R270 Million "Compound" whilst their followers could have benefitted from upliftment with these funds

 

[Major]

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

At no point was I supporting her racist comments. In fact my post entirely excluded what started this topic. When these incidents of racism happen, talk of privilege is soon to follow, and yes Ralf* it is a plea for us to make these discussions constructive instead of bicker points of view, and get answers as to what we can do about this.

These racists exist, which we can't do much about except criminalise them when they speak out, as we are now doing. I'm in complete support of that. The more fines and sentences handed out to racists, the less they speak out, and hopefully change their ways or disappear. Privilege also exists, and is apart of the second type of racism we're discussing here, oppression. We don't actively oppress blacks, blacks are simply not in the same, privileged position we hold. Now, instead of pointing the finger at white people and telling us to #CheckYourPrivilege, tell us how we can help, as individuals, whether collectively or on our own.

 

[Ralf*]

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

when I was a kid, we had a lawn stretching from the front door all the way to the pavement, my parents cars slept on the driveway, in full view and access from the street

we had no walls, no fences, no electric fences, no ADT security, no house alarms, the Govt provided for SAFETY AND SECURITY,

Nowadays if you leave a car on the street or in your driveway with the gate open, it is an open invitation to the criminals

I travelled on the Metro railways every weekend to and from school to home, Pretoria via Germiston to Springs and return, I wouldn't dare do that nowadays. I never felt UNSAFE back then

how did we go from this level of SAFETY and SECURITY and prosperity a few years ago, to the current paranoia and absolute lawlessness

why couldn't the same level be sustained, why did everything have to be "DOWNGRADED" to the extent that nowadays we are told that it is the "current" reality
why are we allowing/accepting this "downgraded" level to be our NEW NORMAL

 

[dvst8]

Major,

Thank you for your post.

For a start, my opinion, would be for a mindset shift. It will be difficult but it is what will be required. Passing blame onto government, screaming and shouting about service delivery will not bring about the change at a micro level, and this is where is needs to begin.

Show the respect you want to everyone, black, white or brown. Start with those around you. Those you interact with everyday. Give people a chance to open up to you, you will be surprised how similiar you are.

One of the most common statements I hear is "But I have lots of non white friends"

But, are they really your friends or people you just know. Open up to all, make true friends, learn about each other, build relationships, honest open strong relationships.

Not friends that you greet at work, meet once a month at a car meet. But real friends, the ones you chat with daily, start to rely on and that rely on you.

And that is where I believe one could start. You will be exposed to their lives and they yours, with this exposure comes understanding and further respect.

If everyone does this, I believe we start changing at a micro level. This will start the macro changes we seek.

---

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

when I was a kid, we had a lawn stretching from the front door all the way to the pavement, my parents cars slept on the driveway, in full view and access from the street

we had no walls, no fences, no electric fences, no ADT security, no house alarms, the Govt provided for SAFETY AND SECURITY,

Nowadays if you leave a car on the street or in your driveway with the gate open, it is an open invitation to the criminals

I travelled on the Metro railways every weekend to and from school to home, Pretoria via Germiston to Springs and return, I wouldn't dare do that nowadays. I never felt UNSAFE back then

how did we go from this level of SAFETY and SECURITY and prosperity a few years ago, to the current paranoia and absolute lawlessness

why couldn't the same level be sustained, why did everything have to be "DOWNGRADED" to the extent that nowadays we are told that it is the "current" reality
why are we allowing/accepting this "downgraded" level to be our NEW NORMAL

Simple, majority of the population were kept away from where you grew up. They were forced into townships and locations. There there was poverty, and with that poverty came crime. They were not allowed to freely move into your area and use the facilities you did.

Government then only had a minority to keep safe. They were not concerned about the rest.

Now, people are allowed to move freely, they not stuck in the townships and locations. There is more to steal and plunder in those previously secure areas. Very little has changed in the townships and locations. There is still crime as there was before.

Is it right ? Definatley not. We need more policing to keep all areas safe. Will it solve the problem, No, not until the poverty is eradicated. Poverty breeds crime. Is it only government that can eradicate poverty ? No, its is everyones responsibility to do whatever they can to help.

 

[Ralf*]

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

when I was a kid, we had a lawn stretching from the front door all the way to the pavement, my parents cars slept on the driveway, in full view and access from the street

we had no walls, no fences, no electric fences, no ADT security, no house alarms, the Govt provided for SAFETY AND SECURITY,

Nowadays if you leave a car on the street or in your driveway with the gate open, it is an open invitation to the criminals

I travelled on the Metro railways every weekend to and from school to home, Pretoria via Germiston to Springs and return, I wouldn't dare do that nowadays. I never felt UNSAFE back then

how did we go from this level of SAFETY and SECURITY and prosperity a few years ago, to the current paranoia and absolute lawlessness

why couldn't the same level be sustained, why did everything have to be "DOWNGRADED" to the extent that nowadays we are told that it is the "current" reality
why are we allowing/accepting this "downgraded" level to be our NEW NORMAL

Simple, majority of the population were kept away from where you grew up. They were forced into townships and locations. There there was poverty, and with that poverty came crime. They were not allowed to freely move into your area and use the facilities you did.

Government then only had a minority to keep safe. They were not concerned about the rest.

Now, people are allowed to move freely, they not stuck in the townships and locations. There is more to steal and plunder in those previously secure areas. Very little has changed in the townships and locations. There is still crime as there was before.

Is it right ? Definatley not. We need more policing to keep all areas safe. Will it solve the problem, No, not until the poverty is eradicated. Poverty breeds crime. Is it only government that can eradicate poverty ? No, its is everyones responsibility to do whatever they can to help.

so can you see where our "cry" as normal citizens comes from,
yes we benefitted from a "priveledged" upbringing, but as @Major almost said in hidden words, we are crying, as to how do we as "whites" resolve the situation, without "DOWGRADING" our level of what we grew up with any further.
we are tired of hearing that it was Jan van Riebeek's fault, we are tired of hearing that it was apartheids fault,

we want to move forward and IMPROVE our lives, everyone wants to move forward and improve their lives, we dont want to further DOWNGRADE our lives and accept an ever lowering standard as a new normal

Poverty defenitelly needs to be adressed, but is the current Govt actually doing something about uplifting everybody, or are they merely interested in DOWNGRADING those that have to those that don't have, whilst lining their own pockets, and economic growth grinding to a full stop

the frustration that the "lady" expressed (reason for this thread) in a RACIST way, was (as far as I am concerned) even though it is UTTERLY HATEFULL in the way she expressed it, is also a massive plea as to why has everything gone "south" in SA....and no solution,...no interest shown by the Govt to deal with it (percieved) to attend to the crime wave

and what is the way forward ?
so that we arent forever reminded of our guilt
so that we arent forever reminded of our fault (van riebeek/apartheid)
so that we aerent forever told to accept the new lawless and currupt as the way it is

 

[maleven-GP]

We can legislate or criminalise RACISM, but does that automatically eradicate it? NO RACISM is more deep rooted than that. Same with other crimes, jail or even death penalty will not automatically end crime..

This is a social, and economical ill... I agree with DVST8, educate those around you, call-out those you see practicing it.. liberate their minds like you say you are..

You have freedom of trade, choice, association etc.. Brief that competent black attorney, that competent black mechanic etc.. INTEGRATE GENUINELY.. Take that aspiring black intern and teach him the ropes, transfer the skill.. Support the government programs for affirmative action in a true sense.. it may start with just empowering 1 previously disadvantaged individual who in turn may be in a position empower through education or otherwise, his or her siblings/cousins, thus braking the cycle of poverty and oppressed mindsets.. take a keen interest and be role player.. one person at a time, one family at a time, one community at a time, etc... it may not come right in our lifetime, but a gradual integration is key..

Unfortunately, the challenge will not be fixed through cut and paste.. It begins with YOU.. It is neither an excuse nor a condonation of what is happening with protests and racism, but people are desperate, they are idle with a lot time on their hands but no job opportunities.. poverty is rife out there (so is laziness) but that's not the point, that it tends to show itself through protests, xenophobia and even racism.. we are generally an angry society with a great disparity in CLASS..

 

[dvst8]

Ralf,

Systems and Structures for 100s of years were designed to service a minority. You grew up as that minority. You grew up having the best on offer. These systems and structures were not designed to service the entire population.

Post apartheid, these systems and services have to now service eveyone not just a minority. These systems and structures are struggling to cope. They have to be expanded and upgarded to be able to service everyone. It took 100s of years to build them, they cannot be "upgraded" in just 22.

We also cannot say, let the minority use them to maintain their lifestyles until its upgraded. It must be shared in the interim. The only way to maintain the lifestyle you had previously is to go back. That is not a solution.

While it may not be as rosey as it was for the minority, it is better for more, and some have remained the same with no improvement.

Again, from my previous post, pointing fingers at government will not improve the situation. Blaming non whites will not improve the situation. Start at a micro level. Make a difference to those you interact with, learn and teach, it will grow from there.

---

Further more, the outburst from this women was not any plea, it was merely an excuse to vent her ignorant racist view and nothing more.

 

[Major]

so can you see where our "cry" as normal citizens comes from,
yes we benefitted from a "priveledged" upbringing, but as @Major almost said in hidden words, we are crying, as to how do we as "whites" resolve the situation, without "DOWGRADING" our level of what we grew up with any further.
we are tired of hearing that it was Jan van Riebeek's fault, we are tired of hearing that it was apartheids fault, we want to move forward and IMPROVE our lives, everyone wants to move forward and improve their lives, we dont want to further DOWNGRADE our lives and accept an ever lowering standard as a new normal

I don't think anyone is asking us to downgrade, but if that is a byproduct of what's needed, then so be it. Tax is a 'downgrade' on the amount of money you make that's intended for good. We've established that this chunk of income is partially wasted by the ANC, but that is outside of white people and in fact anyone's control other than the ANC, so we have to work around it. I don't think helping the situation should be viewed as a downgrade, nor should we be against taking a hit for the good of those around us.

dvst8, I'll be honest here. I struggle to make friends of any colour outside of work or school thanks to social anxiety, and I didn't go to university. My experience with black people is tainted, in that my best friend of 11 years (and I mean that sincerely) ended it by stealing my phone and making me go through court to get it back from him. Later found out that was the tip of the iceberg on things he stole from us. His reason? He wanted to look good at his Matric dance. Schooling, I should add, that my family put him through.

In my circle of friends, they've had their house broken into, while they were asleep, tied up and robbed blind at knife-point. In a separate incident, ordered into the boot of their cars, hands tied, after stealing their phones and left for dead, inside their property, with no means of getting out or contacting anyone for help. Luckily one of them had the know-how to release the mechanism from inside the boot, but that criminal wanted them to starve to death. My sister's best friend (highlight if you aren't squeamish) was stripped naked, raped, and then killed. What about other white people? They hear stories from their peers and the news, etc. All of it fuels a racial divide that both sides don't want to cross. These incidents of crime are easily seen or spun as hate crimes. Hate is the opposite of the friendship you speak of, and doesn't encourage it, quite the opposite. So white people tend to stick together, not associating or getting close with those who, through experience or upbringing, are seen as dangerous or full of hate or resentment towards us, as a group. White people will dance around and deny this fact, because if we say that, the kneejerk response is that we're saying black people are all criminals. No, criminals come in all sorts of colours, but in this country, due to the classism put in place by white people, a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by black people due to their collective, forced situation, as a result of Apartheid and oppression.

But in much the same way that white racists doesn't represent all white people, black criminals don't represent all black people. So we're both guilty of letting exceptions dictate the rule. Both sides have their reservations about the other, before opening their mouths, due to experience and points of view. I feel these crimes would happen less, and with less hatred, if those same people were in a better position in life, having been better assisted by the government that's meant to have their interests at heart. But that same government fuels the view that white people are all racist, or want nothing to do with blacks or their plight, while simultaneously demonstrating to us that they're not helping anyone but themselves, and are therefore hypocrites.

So, I'll make an effort, if you think friendship and inclusion is where it starts. I do have a black work-friend, not a close friend, who I help inside and out of work. I've been wanting to learn Zulu/Xhosa, as I think it demonstrates an inclusive attitude and reduces the barriers I've mentioned above, even if I sound awkward. It doesn't help their situation directly, but it does demonstrate that I want to, that I'm not the enemy. Afrikaans was forced on everyone when I was at school, so it's only fair.

 

[dvst8]

Its a good start major, you have shared your personal experiences, much respect for that.

However there is the other side as well which can be shared but wont help the situation.

Not everyone is going to want to rob or steal from you. Keep an open mind with the new attempt with your work friend. I really hope it grows into a really strong special friendship.

Let me know if you ever wanna meet for a beer or coffee. I want to make the same effort you willing to.

This offer is open to anyone on the forum.

 

[325 muffler]

That's a bit harsh.

I would rather opt for her to be educated on the problem.

I have no remorse for her; she must get what she deserves for being racist and making generalist comments and threats, but locked up? Duct taped? Definitely not...

That's harsh because she was harsh. In this day and age an old woman like her shouldn't be having to be educated about racism. She knew exactly what was she was saying and meant it. Finish and klaar!

 

[Original G]

My view on the video, she's racist and needs to be treated like one, no pu$$y footing around it.

Lets be honest chaps, even at meets we huddle up in race groups (most times than not), its not an easy fix whats happened in the past but what we spew in anger is NO excuse.

A simple start to break barriers is to be honest to yourself, don't fake smiles and laughs....its evident. Rather as mentioned, get to know the person and move away from the stigma taught. First, learn to greet other than in English or Afrikaans, whether be it black South African languages, Islam, Hindu etc. That's an ice breaker already !

I was at fault for many years, I would stereotype Afrikaans and English people from what I went through over the years, each was painted with the same brush, its only when I decided to change that I saw people as people and not a race or history attached to them.

Try it, greet, smile, chat with some other than your own race per day for a few minutes, you'll learn a lot.

oh please don't change your accent, tone or speed when speaking to a black person......we hate it , just speak normally.

 

[maleven-GP]

children tend to become a product of what they are exposed, so we must careful of what we feed them (directly & indirectly).. if the parents do not integrate, they are unlikely to do so.. it is always going to be "US" and "THEM". CHARITY does begin at home.

they are the future of this country, and they are not preoccupied by the past... though they should still be taught about the history and what has been achieved thus far..

*just a thought*

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

children tend to become a product of what they are exposed, so we must careful of what we feed them (directly & indirectly).. if the parents do not integrate, they are unlikely to do so.. it is always going to be "US" and "THEM". CHARITY does begin at home.

they are the future of this country, and they are not preoccupied by the past... though they should still be taught about the history and what has been achieved thus far..

*just a thought*

Best post thus far on this thread :clapper:

 

[WIDEOPN-X5]

My view on the video, she's racist and needs to be treated like one, no pu$$y footing around it.

Lets be honest chaps, even at meets we huddle up in race groups (most times than not), its not an easy fix whats happened in the past but what we spew in anger is NO excuse.

A simple start to break barriers is to be honest to yourself, don't fake smiles and laughs....its evident. Rather as mentioned, get to know the person and move away from the stigma taught. First, learn to greet other than in English or Afrikaans, whether be it black South African languages, Islam, Hindu etc. That's an ice breaker already !

I was at fault for many years, I would stereotype Afrikaans and English people from what I went through over the years, each was painted with the same brush, its only when I decided to change that I saw people as people and not a race or history attached to them.

Try it, greet, smile, chat with some other than your own race per day for a few minutes, you'll learn a lot.

oh please don't change your accent, tone or speed when speaking to a black person......we hate it , just speak normally.

Trevor Noah does a skit on this very subject.....and in typical Trevaaaa style its flippen funny because it is sooooo true.

 

[VictorMike]

oh please don't change your accent, tone or speed when speaking to a black person......we hate it , just speak normally.

I really don't think this is something that happens because of race. When I speak to Europeans who cant speak English well, I also start speaking with a reduced vocabulary. In fact the other day I was speaking to a 65 year old Italian engineer. This dude is the foremost authority on solar power in the southern hemisphere, but he has a THICK accent. I found myself using simple sentence structure talking to him .

 

[Gordvisr]

Major,

Thank you for your post.

For a start, my opinion, would be for a mindset shift. It will be difficult but it is what will be required. Passing blame onto government, screaming and shouting about service delivery will not bring about the change at a micro level, and this is where is needs to begin.

Show the respect you want to everyone, black, white or brown. Start with those around you. Those you interact with everyday. Give people a chance to open up to you, you will be surprised how similiar you are.

One of the most common statements I hear is "But I have lots of non white friends"

But, are they really your friends or people you just know. Open up to all, make true friends, learn about each other, build relationships, honest open strong relationships.

Not friends that you greet at work, meet once a month at a car meet. But real friends, the ones you chat with daily, start to rely on and that rely on you.

And that is where I believe one could start. You will be exposed to their lives and they yours, with this exposure comes understanding and further respect.

If everyone does this, I believe we start changing at a micro level. This will start the macro changes we seek.

---

Crime in SA is an excuse for some to release their racist outbursts.

Criminals are not of any single race. You get white, black and brown criminals.

Crime is prevalent in most if not all countries including the first world. They dont share our government.

Point is, crime or no crime, there is no excuse for such racist outbursts.

when I was a kid, we had a lawn stretching from the front door all the way to the pavement, my parents cars slept on the driveway, in full view and access from the street

we had no walls, no fences, no electric fences, no ADT security, no house alarms, the Govt provided for SAFETY AND SECURITY,

Nowadays if you leave a car on the street or in your driveway with the gate open, it is an open invitation to the criminals

I travelled on the Metro railways every weekend to and from school to home, Pretoria via Germiston to Springs and return, I wouldn't dare do that nowadays. I never felt UNSAFE back then

how did we go from this level of SAFETY and SECURITY and prosperity a few years ago, to the current paranoia and absolute lawlessness

why couldn't the same level be sustained, why did everything have to be "DOWNGRADED" to the extent that nowadays we are told that it is the "current" reality
why are we allowing/accepting this "downgraded" level to be our NEW NORMAL

Simple, majority of the population were kept away from where you grew up. They were forced into townships and locations. There there was poverty, and with that poverty came crime. They were not allowed to freely move into your area and use the facilities you did.

Government then only had a minority to keep safe. They were not concerned about the rest.

Now, people are allowed to move freely, they not stuck in the townships and locations. There is more to steal and plunder in those previously secure areas. Very little has changed in the townships and locations. There is still crime as there was before.

Is it right ? Definatley not. We need more policing to keep all areas safe. Will it solve the problem, No, not until the poverty is eradicated. Poverty breeds crime. Is it only government that can eradicate poverty ? No, its is everyones responsibility to do whatever they can to help.

---

A bit off topic but, Crime does not come only from poverty, my house was "stolen" from me from a guy that owns a healthy couple of property.

 

[Original G]

oh please don't change your accent, tone or speed when speaking to a black person......we hate it , just speak normally.

I really don't think this is something that happens because of race. When I speak to Europeans who cant speak English well, I also start speaking with a reduced vocabulary. In fact the other day I was speaking to a 65 year old Italian engineer. This dude is the foremost authority on solar power in the southern hemisphere, but he has a THICK accent. I found myself using simple sentence structure talking to him .

Hey Vuk, I suppose that's your experience and I respect the thought that its not racial from your point of view. Unfortunately I've experienced what I've mentioned and thought I'd share, as mates and I have spoken about it.

 

[gclubonline]

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สล็อต :smashScreen:

 

[Venda Boy]

ขอบคุณสำหรับการโพสต์ของผู้ดูแลระบบ ....... คุณ

สล็อต :smashScreen:

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