Motorist goes on a Racist Rant

[Ralf*]

There is NO excuse for racism!!! NONE!!!!

........

I also having dealt with people in distress, know that it will bring out a side of people you would never expect to see normally...just look at yourself when something stressful happens, and you will see what I mean.

So yes, she was wrong with her statements! TOTALLY uncalled for, but I do understand her frustration and distress after what happened, and I feel that she needs to be educated in how she was wrong.

thats my thoughts as well

many are living in a "sugar-coated" society, where they profess to be "non-racist" vocally, very vocally, on a daily basis, but when they placed in an extremely stressfull situation, then these sentiments break thru the sugar coated exterior

I also subscribe to the sentiments that she comes from a position of priveledge, where the law still worked (for her and her kind) all others were exposed to crime on a regular basis, and are maybe even desensitised to it, as it is such a regular occurance in their lives, but this lady coming from a position of "priveledge" is not used to her "priveledge" rights being violated by this crime, and her trust in the priveledged system to be able to do anything about it, has shaken her to the core, and this brings out the deep seated hatred and dissapointement for how her priveledged world has crumbled to the same level as the remainder of society.

so yes, ....she is acting out her frustration at the lack of safety and security, based upon her previous priveledged status.
so yes,....crime happens daily, but not so much exposure to those coming from a previous priveledged status, and thus it seems to hit them harder, when the reality hits them.

 

[Fuzz@tinyNET]

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

On the money.

I'd say it's very easy for us all to sit in our comfy chairs and rant about this on a forum dedicated to the pinnacle of automotive pleasure. Most people subjected to inequality don't have that privilege.

Not being privy to what many people are experiencing on the day to day skews our views completely. Spending a day in Soweto on Vilikazi street doesn't even come close to what it's like out there.

You try living on a salary of sub-R3000.00 a month, where most of that money is spent on traveling to and from work, waking up early, going to bed late, living in a shanty house, and then not being frustrated by others flourishing around you when you are putting in the hours and working hard...

The playing field isn't level for everyone and that's where our perspective fails us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pimpassdaddy]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

---

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

Spot on!

 

[dvst8]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

Well said.

It irks me when I hear the statement that apartheid ended in 94.

The legacy of apartheid will be prevalent for many years to come. Laws may have changed, mindsets have not. Clear by the video and by some comments.

 

[Dion-ZN]

absolutely terrible. :RedNo:

I have a feeling this type of thread can break friendships.

 

[Fuzz@tinyNET]

absolutely terrible. :RedNo:

I have a feeling this type of thread can break friendships.

Or strengthen them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kimeran]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

---

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

Spot on!

---

You talk like the people on this forum are in support of apartheid?

 

[maleven-GP]

:YesNo: institutionalised oppression of people because of their skin colour for over a 100 years cannot be undone in 21yrs.. remember it was physical, mental and most importantly economic & political ..

this went hand in hand with the teaching of superiority to the white minority, and because it was also legislated (law), most people (white, that is) believed in it, taught it at home and at schools.. the police (including black), lawyers and judges of that time had to enforce it..

in the very same breath the majority (black) taught it at school through "bantu" education, where the black mind was mostly prepared for manual labour and to obey the system as it stood.. to an extent where it would even reach homes, because when your father is mentally enslaved he is likely to preach the same home.. I'm in the legal profession and I can safely say I have encountered clients (black) that would rather be represented by a white colleague (irrespective of knowledge or experience) because he is seen to know better.. SO, MENTAL SLAVERY is still a big mountain to climb.

In a nutshell what was achieved in 1994 was political power, we are still no where near mental and economic shift from the previous regime despite the affirmative action legislation that we have seen in recent past. HE WHO HAS THE GOLD IS KING AND MAKES RULES. The gold and the land is still in the hands of the minority. The only "business" that is known to the majority of black people is with government structures (tenders) but then again who is the actually supplier of goods? who owns the equipment to be used? who owns the land? and, ultimately who makes more out of th same system meant to redress the past?

I think more than anything we are sitting with two challenges in SA: a class war and a racial one. The gap between the poor and the rich is forever growing leading catastrophic results. The gap between black, white, indian and coloured keeps widening due to economic exclusion and other factors hence integration is a challenge.

I'm happy that there is such a platform as our FANATICS where there can be debate for South Africans to hear each others views and engage, most importantly to educate each other in relation to our backgrounds, thoughts, challenges, observations and experiences and to do so in a civilised manner. I have seen other social networks where its just plain war, simply because people focus on winning the debate rather than listening to understand the plight of others..

keep it up FANATICS..

---

absolutely terrible. :RedNo:

I have a feeling this type of thread can break friendships.

Or strengthen them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you Fuzz, such discussions need to take place to avoid bottling up issues, thus ending up with all these scenes.. there was education behind every racist believe, and if we don't engage we will never learn otherwise..

 

[dvst8]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

---

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

Spot on!

---

You talk like the people on this forum are in support of apartheid?

---

U really believe that SOME dont wish it was back ?

 

[Venda Boy]

 

[Kimeran]

:YesNo: institutionalised oppression of people because of their skin colour for over a 100 years cannot be undone in 21yrs.. remember it was physical, mental and most importantly economic & political ..

this went hand in hand with the teaching of superiority to the white minority, and because it was also legislated (law), most people (white, that is) believed in it, taught it at home and at schools.. the police (including black), lawyers and judges of that time had to enforce it..

in the very same breath the majority (black) taught it at school through "bantu" education, where the black mind was mostly prepared for manual labour and to obey the system as it stood.. to an extent where it would even reach homes, because when your father is mentally enslaved he is likely to preach the same home.. I'm in the legal profession and I can safely say I have encountered clients (black) that would rather be represented by a white colleague (irrespective of knowledge or experience) because he is seen to know better.. SO, MENTAL SLAVERY is still a big mountain to climb.

In a nutshell what was achieved in 1994 was political power, we are still no where near mental and economic shift from the previous regime despite the affirmative action legislation that we have seen in recent past. HE WHO HAS THE GOLD IS KING AND MAKES RULES. The gold and the land is still in the hands of the minority. The only "business" that is known to the majority of black people is with government structures (tenders) but then again who is the actually supplier of goods? who owns the equipment to be used? who owns the land? and, ultimately who makes more out of th same system meant to redress the past?

I think more than anything we are sitting with two challenges in SA: a class war and a racial one. The gap between the poor and the rich is forever growing leading catastrophic results. The gap between black, white, indian and coloured keeps widening due to economic exclusion and other factors hence integration is a challenge.

I'm happy that there is such a platform as our FANATICS where there can be debate for South Africans to hear each others views and engage, most importantly to educate each other in relation to our backgrounds, thoughts, challenges, observations and experiences and to do so in a civilised manner. I have seen other social networks where its just plain war, simply because people focus on winning the debate rather than listening to understand the plight of others..

keep it up FANATICS..

---

absolutely terrible. :RedNo:

I have a feeling this type of thread can break friendships.

Or strengthen them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you Fuzz, such discussions need to take place to avoid bottling up issues, thus ending up with all these scenes.. there was education behind every racist believe, and if we don't engage we will never learn otherwise..

---

The best response I've ever seen! :clapper:

 

[Kimeran]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

---

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

Spot on!

---

You talk like the people on this forum are in support of apartheid?

---

U really believe that SOME dont wish it was back ?

---

Some most certainly do, even though they won't admit it.
But I think majority don't, neither do they want reverse racism to happen

 

[Junaidr1]

That is why black can't just "move on"... You approach this as if we're equal, and we are far from it.

I am sorry to say this, but your thinking is then part of the problem. We should be working towards a future together, not reversing a legacy that racists created which has been demolished.

And there I point it out again, another person who is clueless as to what the debate is about.

What legacy has been demolished exactly? From where I'm sitting, the same people that were oppressed through education, are still uneducated. The same people lacking that education, have had children of their own, and have never been able to provide a decent life for the, meaning a continuation of the legacy. So at what point exactly has the legacy of apartheid been demolished?

I won't even touch on the psychological issues that were engineered into society, where the black male was made out to be useless and any masculinity taken away from him, causing them to vent on their wives at home through abuse as that was the only way they could be "men" in society. The humiliation before your families etc. Apartheid was more than just a system that meant using different bathrooms.

It was a system to de-humanise an entire race based PURELY on skin colour, by not only oppressing, but engineering a lack of self worth and the ability to not be able to think. Verwoerd said it himself "What will a black child do with Mathematics"

So I ask again, what legacy issues that you speak of, have been demolished?

---

Byron Warner, a black Software Engineer from the US, wrote the following:

"One of the problems that arises when talking about racism is that there are different definitions, which causes confusion. How can we have a conversation about racism when are not talking about the same thing.

I did some looking round and seems like there are two common definitions:

1. Belief that races have qualities that are either superior or inferior to others.
2. A system of oppression that keeps one or more races subjugated

When black people say they can't be racist they are using the second definition. At a macro level this seems logical. What seems to irk whites is that on a micro level, person to person they feel that blacks do have the ability to threaten, abuse, oppress them.

So the answer depends on your definition of racism, naturally we pick the definition that suits our belief system."

In SA, I think white people tend to do what they can to not be racist according to definition 1 by treating everyone with respect etc. A lot of the times the racism that is being fought in SA refers to definition 2. I dont think a lot of white people are even aware of the 2nd definition hence the confusion that arises when these kind of debates arise. Byron's view definitely opened a new perspective to this debate for me.

Spot on!

---

You talk like the people on this forum are in support of apartheid?

---

U really believe that SOME dont wish it was back ?

---

Some most certainly do, even though they won't admit it.
But I think majority don't, neither do they want reverse racism to happen

---

So we are going to be singing " Kumbaya " at the Hot Chocolate Meet on Saturday Night ? :fencelook:

 

[Major]

I've asked this before and went unanswered. What are white people supposed to do, today? I see a lot of articles and threads and everything that discusses and highlights white privilege, but have yet to see something that points toward a solution. And the second part of my question is, what are white people supposed to do, that doesn't currently fall under government responsibility?

If it's a question of taking away white people's ill-gotten gains and giving that back to black people via grants, land, services, transport, education, housing and a brighter future, isn't that called Tax? Isn't that in place? Isn't the ANC taking that money and, objectively, pissing away billions upon billions of Rands on their own luxuries? All of us who make a living, black or white, have up to 40% of it taken away so it can be redistributed to those who need it. Everything you buy has 14% attached to it. Every gain you make by investing it gets a portion taken away. Everything we're privileged enough to use has some sort of tax on it, even plastic bags. And what happens to that money?

My argument is that government has hundreds of billions of Rands at their disposal every year, and time and time again we hear about how it is essentially wasted on non-essentials for a select few, or it just vanished. That is the gripe white people have. That's why these #ZumaMustFall campaigns are started. It isn't because he's black and we just don't like him, it's because we have objective proof that he doesn't deserve to be President and doesn't care about South Africa, only himself and those close to him. The President is there to lead government to the benefit of the whole country. He's supposed to represent all of us, do what's best for all of us, that's what he swore to do. Instead he spends R247 million rand on himself. What could be done with that money? And that's just one incident of wasteful expenditure.

They've had over 20 years to use the resources at their disposal for good, and they don't. So what happens? This black and white disparity gets worse and worse by the day, because government isn't uplifting those in need, fuelling the racial divide. But we get labelled as oppressors? Do you really think that if government had spent that money on those in need that this level of racism would still exist? There would be far more black people in decent homes and areas, with a decent education, healthcare, etc. But they didn't, so they aren't, and everything is then blamed on "the legacy of Apartheid". Where will R1.2 trillion actually go this year?

 

[dvst8]

Major, do you really believe that if corruption in government did not exist, the women in the video would not have reacted the way she did ?

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

So we are going to be singing " Kumbaya " at the Hot Chocolate Meet on Saturday Night ? :fencelook:

I suggest the okes that feel very strongly about what the topic evolved into, need to get together at ODI, and have a Raciest run. :rollsmile:

 

[Ralf*]

So we are going to be singing " Kumbaya " at the Hot Chocolate Meet on Saturday Night ? :fencelook:

I suggest the okes that feel very strongly about what the topic evolved into, need to get together at ODI, and have a Raciest run. :rollsmile:

what....?
Black BM's against white BM's

so now you gonna exclude silver BM's etc ?

 

[Major]

Major, do you really believe that if corruption in government did not exist, the women in the video would not have reacted the way she did ?

Would the smash-and-grab have happened in the first place? Would those specific people have had the need to steal that night?

I'm not defending this woman and her racism, you've missed my point. She deserves what's coming to her. I'm addressing the second type of racism mentioned above, oppression, and how every time this kind of thing happens, somehow white privilege becomes part of it, when many of us alive today neither support nor sympathise with oppression, and the means of addressing oppression aren't even discussed.

 

[Ralf*]

Major, do you really believe that if corruption in government did not exist, the women in the video would not have reacted the way she did ?

Would the smash-and-grab have happened in the first place? Would those specific people have had the need to steal that night?

I'm not defending this woman and her racism, you've missed my point. She deserves what's coming to her. I'm addressing the second type of racism mentioned above, oppression, and how every time this kind of thing happens, somehow white privilege becomes part of it, when many of us alive today neither support nor sympathise with oppression, and the means of addressing oppression aren't even discussed.

its a matter of the "priveledged" SAFETY AND SECURITY that the few took for granted has been erroded. to a point where the Govt isn't capable of providing its constitutional obligations of providing SAFETY AND SECURITY to all...at all

now the reasons why the Govt is derelict in its duties to provide SAFETY AND SECURITY to all, in the same LEVEL as was previously only enjoyed by the "priveledged few"..is a long discusion on its own, from Corruption, to wastage of tax money, etc etc

 

[Major]

Major, do you really believe that if corruption in government did not exist, the women in the video would not have reacted the way she did ?

Would the smash-and-grab have happened in the first place? Would those specific people have had the need to steal that night?

I'm not defending this woman and her racism, you've missed my point. She deserves what's coming to her. I'm addressing the second type of racism mentioned above, oppression, and how every time this kind of thing happens, somehow white privilege becomes part of it, when many of us alive today neither support nor sympathise with oppression, and the means of addressing oppression aren't even discussed.

its a matter of the "priveledged" SAFETY AND SECURITY that the few took for granted has been erroded. to a point where the Govt isn't capable of providing its constitutional obligations of providing SAFETY AND SECURITY to all...at all

now the reasons why the Govt is derelict in its duties to provide SAFETY AND SECURITY to all, in the same LEVEL as was previously only enjoyed by the "priveledged few"..is a long discusion on its own, from Corruption, to wastage of tax money, etc etc

But isn't a part of the problem of fuelling racial disparity? I agree it's a long discussion, but it's overlooked. We're reminded daily of our privilege, so again I ask you, what must we do about it? We've acknowledged it, now how do we share the benefits of privilege with those in need, other than through tax that gets wasted?