Downscaling: Help me decide

TBP88

Well-known member
I might just :ROFLMAO:
I think you should actually think pretty carefully about frugal living vs having fun. In your initial text you described a *E90 320d* as an emotional experience. If I was you I'd *FAR* rather have a car that engages me. Even if it has some costs, you could quite easily get very decent money for the two 3ers, replace with a fun weekender and you'll still have a swift for daily duties, the shopping trip, etc. Then your weekender only sees use if the wife misses her lift club and she needs the swift, otherwise it remains a fun car.

You can probably do all of this, while putting money into your bond.

Realistically 200 000km+ diesel 3ers are not going to appreciate, the floor to their value is very, very low. As you put mileage on, as they age and degrade they're gonna cost more and more to keep running.

That'd be my advice, assuming you can get mid to high 100k for each of the 3ers, that's 350k coming in, 250k buys a fun car, 100k goes into bond and savings.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
I think you should actually think pretty carefully about frugal living vs having fun. In your initial text you described a *E90 320d* as an emotional experience. If I was you I'd *FAR* rather have a car that engages me. Even if it has some costs, you could quite easily get very decent money for the two 3ers, replace with a fun weekender and you'll still have a swift for daily duties, the shopping trip, etc. Then your weekender only sees use if the wife misses her lift club and she needs the swift, otherwise it remains a fun car.

You can probably do all of this, while putting money into your bond.

Realistically 200 000km+ diesel 3ers are not going to appreciate, the floor to their value is very, very low. As you put mileage on, as they age and degrade they're gonna cost more and more to keep running.

That'd be my advice, assuming you can get mid to high 100k for each of the 3ers, that's 350k coming in, 250k buys a fun car, 100k goes into bond and savings.

I tend to agree but @DRCraig bear in mind you are speaking to people who have owned Alfas, so we aren't exactly the poster children for fiscal conservatism. :ROFLMAO: The only thing worse than instant gratification for those unprepared for it is delayed gratification for those who are.

We have these noble goals in life sometimes but you must also maximise your comfort and fun while you can. You want to pay your house off but you might find that your plans don't quite go that way anyway and its 2029 or 2030 and you've both given up things you love and are unable to replace them. The other bit is "what then" - what is the next 'responsible' thing to do? There is always something to gatekeep the fun.

Before you know it you're too old to have fun or there is a health crisis or three thrown your way. I myself have just had to deal with something like this where one week we were going to spend a very large amount of money and the very next week my wife was in for major surgery and literally everything changed dramatically. Between the general unpredictability in this world, health, war and age, the opportunity can be gone very quickly.

There are healthy ways to manage debt and a homeloan is a pretty normal debt to have especially if you're in your early 30s. If circumstances allow for it, don't delay pleasures that life can give you. This will be unpopular advice, but you can also liquidate a car far more quickly and 'inexpensively' than you can a property if you do end up unemployed or retrenched (or having a few bad years in business) as can be the case later in your 30s and 40s.

I can tell you first hand that nothing ever gets cheaper, more accessible or 'closer'. Your ability to take on risk (and appetite for it) dramatically declines when your retirement target is shorter than 2 decades. Most people seem to be in a holding pattern in terms of the type of things they can afford. 10 years ago I could buy a new M3 or a new-ish M5 or a 10 year old Ferrari. Right now, despite earnings being dramatically different, those are my same options (and I feel I am lucky that is still the case).

Very few investments will outpace the dramatic inflationary effects of living in SA. If you want to keep abreast of daily costs for retirement that's one thing. Chasing luxury and prestige items is another story: eg: entry level supercars have increased far beyond inflationary levels. Even M cars are beyond the reach of many unless they are renting them as is the current style LOL. You have to jump in sometime or be left behind.

There is also always something to chase when it comes to houses or some other need be it family expansion/downscaling/relocating: Guess what, even once that bond is paid up there will be something else (or a renovation or an addition etc).

I also feel like I did all the wrong things with properties, both in terms of what I bought and paying them off early in a stagnant market. I would have been far better off renting, keeping the liquidity or even buying the things I "should not have been buying" according to other people, that have far outperformed property or doing 'the right things' LOL. Even doing that I would still have been in the same place property wise.

Not financial advice though - speak to a proper financial advisor too. I sent someone to Kish recently but can't seem to tag him so not sure if he is still on here.
 

TBP88

Well-known member
I tend to agree but @DRCraig bear in mind you are speaking to people who have owned Alfas, so we aren't exactly the poster children for fiscal conservatism. :ROFLMAO: The only thing worse than instant gratification for those unprepared for it is delayed gratification for those who are.

We have these noble goals in life sometimes but you must also maximise your comfort and fun while you can. You want to pay your house off but you might find that your plans don't quite go that way anyway and its 2029 or 2030 and you've both given up things you love and are unable to replace them. The other bit is "what then" - what is the next 'responsible' thing to do? There is always something to gatekeep the fun.

Before you know it you're too old to have fun or there is a health crisis or three thrown your way. I myself have just had to deal with something like this where one week we were going to spend a very large amount of money and the very next week my wife was in for major surgery and literally everything changed dramatically. Between the general unpredictability in this world, health, war and age, the opportunity can be gone very quickly.

There are healthy ways to manage debt and a homeloan is a pretty normal debt to have especially if you're in your early 30s. If circumstances allow for it, don't delay pleasures that life can give you. This will be unpopular advice, but you can also liquidate a car far more quickly and 'inexpensively' than you can a property if you do end up unemployed or retrenched (or having a few bad years in business) as can be the case later in your 30s and 40s.

I can tell you first hand that nothing ever gets cheaper, more accessible or 'closer'. Your ability to take on risk (and appetite for it) dramatically declines when your retirement target is shorter than 2 decades. Most people seem to be in a holding pattern in terms of the type of things they can afford. 10 years ago I could buy a new M3 or a new-ish M5 or a 10 year old Ferrari. Right now, despite earnings being dramatically different, those are my same options (and I feel I am lucky that is still the case).

Very few investments will outpace the dramatic inflationary effects of living in SA. If you want to keep abreast of daily costs for retirement that's one thing. Chasing luxury and prestige items is another story: eg: entry level supercars have increased far beyond inflationary levels. Even M cars are beyond the reach of many unless they are renting them as is the current style LOL. You have to jump in sometime or be left behind.

There is also always something to chase when it comes to houses or some other need be it family expansion/downscaling/relocating: Guess what, even once that bond is paid up there will be something else (or a renovation or an addition etc).

I also feel like I did all the wrong things with properties, both in terms of what I bought and paying them off early in a stagnant market. I would have been far better off renting, keeping the liquidity or even buying the things I "should not have been buying" according to other people, that have far outperformed property or doing 'the right things' LOL. Even doing that I would still have been in the same place property wise.

Not financial advice though - speak to a proper financial advisor too. I sent someone to Kish recently but can't seem to tag him so not sure if he is still on here.
This is great advice - basically enjoy yourself gent! You're in your early 30s, have settled down with a partner. Make sure you don't get into the trap of always sorting things and never smelling the roses. There's *NO* point to life if all you're doing is sorting the basics out and never actually living a little.

Sure you might take a year longer to pay off your car, and your retirement might be marginally worse, but again, you're only 30 once. There's ZERO use to a shitload of money at 70 with knees finished and a back incapable of enjoying the M cars your lusted over 40yrs prior. I've discussed this in my thread, at some point you *HAVE* to accept the trade off of giving up X to have Y. Whether it's sacrificing some holidays, living in a smaller place, working an extra year whatever to have the special car(s?) you want. For most of us here, that sacrifice is worth it, and again, clearly you like cars so why not get something that really tickles you and have a daily that just does the job.

Not financial advice - this is from a 2x alfa owner and somebody currently paying an absurd amount on a silly car!
 

Fordkoppie

///Member
That'd be my advice, assuming you can get mid to high 100k for each of the 3ers, that's 350k coming in, 250k buys a fun car, 100k goes into bond and savings.
The only problem with this is that both are entry level 3 series with high mileage.
I think that selling both will yield less than R250k

e90 = +/- R100k
F30 = +/- R150k

My opinion would be to sell the F30 right now for reasons others have explained already.
It would bring in the most cash, retains your e90 that you have an emotional bond with, and you already made up your mind that the F30 will be replaced by an X5 down the line
 

TBP88

Well-known member
The only problem with this is that both are entry level 3 series with high mileage.
I think that selling both will yield less than R250k

e90 = +/- R100k
F30 = +/- R150k

My opinion would be to sell the F30 right now for reasons others have explained already.
It would bring in the most cash, retains your e90 that you have an emotional bond with, and you already made up your mind that the F30 will be replaced by an X5 down the line
Yeah, I have no clue what the market on these cars looks like - if this is the sort of money coming in, then agreed, keep e90, sell F30, make a call on swift.

Also worth noting that 200 000km, you might start seeing the big bills in the near future, cooling system, turbos, oil lines, suspension bushings and shocks. If all of that needs fixing in short order your bills will add up *fast*.
 

DRCraig

Well-known member
Absolutely love this forum — insightful, highly active members, and the level of discussion is genuinely impressive.

I do understand the “don’t postpone life forever” argument.


For me though, it’s about making a short-term sacrifice for a bigger long-term gain. I’d love to get into something nicer and faster right now, but becoming debt-free sooner gives a different kind of freedom later on I believe. For those familiar with Dave Ramsey, we’re basically on Baby Step 6 - aggressively paying off the house. “Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else” has always stuck with me.


I’ve also seen firsthand how being over-indebted can become normal and affect families over time, so part of my mindset comes from that as well. Just trying to find the balance between enjoying cars now and setting ourselves up properly for the future and drive some nice BM's.

I’ve gone back and forth on upgrading into my dream BMW, but I’ve finally made the call that a short-term sacrifice now will be for the greater good long term.
 

DRCraig

Well-known member
We have unofficially decided to let the F30 go. Still need to decide on pricing, fitting new tyres etc etc. Will keep the E90 and Swift for the forseeable future and decide their fate once the house is fully paid- hopefully by the end of 2027.

E90 will have racked up close to, if not more than, 300 000km by then.
 
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