I dont see many F90 M5s high mileage for sale..how is the engine reliabiliity in general for the F90..been looking at facelift versions with mileage under 40k. Does it stack up well in this regard to the inline 6s?With 53000km racked up and another year passing by, it was time for the F90s annual service.
For those interested and with many cars coming off plan here are some costs that may be indicative (Usually the cash prices are a bit higher than what Motorplan is billed, but then discounts also apply at certain branches and over certain periods):
Labour for the basic oil service was R315, R371 for an oil filter and R1310 for the oil itself (Motorplan costs ex VAT).
Microfilter service: R210 in labour () and R1883 for the microfilters/carbon canister
I was not happy with the noise on full lock that was previously attended to and they fitted new revised friction plates to the front wheels.
This involved:
Removal and replacement of the front discs: R1261 in labour (12 units)
Friction discs: R1566
Inner Hex Bolt: R51
Plastilube: R23
Testing: R315
Again, not sure what out of plan would have cost but this was on the invoice and covered by Motorplan
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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Llew's F90 M5
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
There aren't many stories about the F90. They have forged Mahle pistons of a different design and a forged crank but the rods (though a different design) remain the "weak" point in the motor if you're chasing 700kw+. The cooling system is MUCH improved over the F10, better boost control... of course being AWD enables the acceleration party tricks...
As far as high-performance motors go, I have a lot of confidence in the platform having had a car with the S63tu in it (in some form) for the past 10 years and over 150000km. There are now multiple generations of cars with it and BMW has made changes somewhat aligned with the failure points that the aftermarket picked up on and built solutions for (eg: I remember TMSS would build a boost balancing pipe between the inlet tubes for the F10s... on the F90 BMW has this pipe (albeit a rubber version) as standard now; revised fuel pumps, revised cooling system that doesn't melt in the hot-V LOL)
The version of the motor in the F90 (I am guessing due to the exhaust manifold design) sounds MUCH better than the F10 but still a bit too quiet
This doc attached may help you in your research. It goes into a great deal of detail (and more accurately than I ever could). In some instances it includes changes vs N63 and previous S63tu variants as well.
Drove a stock M5 Competition on the weekend. I am a fairly good driver and have had some quick cars over the years but the power of this thing is just insane. No offense TurboLlew but when you really on it I was honsetly intimidated, and its way less fun than say an E39 M5.
I would need at least 6 months to get anywhere close to taming something like this.
I would need at least 6 months to get anywhere close to taming something like this.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
It's easy to get that impression, but the truth is that you become desensitised to these things over time
. Bear in mind I've been lucky enough to have had a few modified JDM cars, a 500ish kw F10 M5, my 215wkw/880kg Alfa and now this... plus had all but the F90 on track.The F90 has loads of power but is MUCH, MUCH less intimidating to drive quickly than the F10 (especially with some extra power)... and you notice the power deficit as soon as you have to drive anything else
I've had guys fight me on the dynamics of the F10 vs. F90 but I write this off as their tinder-date experience vs. my marriage experience with both of them. Either way, ANY M5 has a way of making you feel like God and then reminding you that you're not when you've overdone it which is part of the fun over an RS or AMG.If you have enough seat time in most cars, you will eventually tame them (some over longer periods than others). Everyone has a sound bite about the GT3 (or RS) being more car than anyone will ever need... or the GT2, 458 or 488 or Lambo STO/SVJ... Even things like the M4 GTS... M4 CSL... If any of this was ever true, there would be no market for ever faster and ever more capable cars since the R33 GT-R which is the first time I remember reading a comment like 'all the performance anyone will ever need'. Even within the Porsche family there are now base-model (and baby!) cars that surpass the performance of older GT cars that (in their time) were thought of as more than anyone would ever be able to handle without a race license.
There are also different things that different folks look for. Some want the most accomplished car available with the best "CV" of reviews and opinions. Then you have guys who want to be terrified or want to be challenged... some want attention or noise... others just want something different. The first few times I drove the Alfa my hands were shaking... something the GT4 and M2 Comp didn't come close to doing for me. That passed quite quickly but it has still been fun (and I can't imagine not having it) getting to know it better and improving along with it... I guess it becomes ever harder to figure out what is going to get your hands shaking again, let alone dealing with the price tag that comes with it... but you also really start to understand what you are looking for (if you're after actual improvements and not ticking off the bucket list).
Make no mistake though despite having had my F10 for 7 years and F90 now for 2 and a bit, the E39 remains my favourite BMW... at this point more for reasons of nostalgia than performance.
sash
///Member
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Very small detail update. With winter looming I did a fairly quick detail and ceramic coating on the F90. With the building and general chaos of the last year it was long overdue:
I used Rupes Coarse and Gyeon Primer applied with my Rupes Mille (one of my best wastes of money LOL). I let it cure but also wiped down with Gyeon Prep based on previous experience.
Applied 2 coats of Q2 Mohs 4 hours apart and 1 coat of Q2 Skin (Syncro system)
I previously used Mohs alone and it definitely had a different feel to a traditional SiO2 coating (Mohs is Polysilazane). I felt like I almost 'enjoyed' Gyeon One more even though Mohs was a 'better' product. (Gyeon One is the entry level coating). I don't feel like there was any 'extra' longevity between the two either (with Gyeon One exceeding my expectations by a lot and Mohs coming up a little short). The Synco kit includes a bottle of Q2 Skin which is meant to be a Silicone based topper for the Mohs base. It also adds that 'candy type' effect that is missing from Mohs but which was the 'fun' part of Gyeon One (Mohs is like a 'real' pic but the Skin acts like an instagram filter over it It is hard to describe). It seems that the Skin has added that super slippery "SiO2" feeling back into the experience and it beads and sheds water differently (I will be able to report back on the latter in 14 days when I can wash the car again LOL). Time will tell how this works out for me but I will likely have this car until at least the end of 2025.
I recently had an 'all white' garage temporarily (something I had wanted in the past) but every time I see this colour (especially freshly revived) it makes me feel that a variety of nice colours is better!
I used Rupes Coarse and Gyeon Primer applied with my Rupes Mille (one of my best wastes of money LOL). I let it cure but also wiped down with Gyeon Prep based on previous experience.
Applied 2 coats of Q2 Mohs 4 hours apart and 1 coat of Q2 Skin (Syncro system)
I previously used Mohs alone and it definitely had a different feel to a traditional SiO2 coating (Mohs is Polysilazane). I felt like I almost 'enjoyed' Gyeon One more even though Mohs was a 'better' product. (Gyeon One is the entry level coating). I don't feel like there was any 'extra' longevity between the two either (with Gyeon One exceeding my expectations by a lot and Mohs coming up a little short). The Synco kit includes a bottle of Q2 Skin which is meant to be a Silicone based topper for the Mohs base. It also adds that 'candy type' effect that is missing from Mohs but which was the 'fun' part of Gyeon One (Mohs is like a 'real' pic but the Skin acts like an instagram filter over it
It is hard to describe). It seems that the Skin has added that super slippery "SiO2" feeling back into the experience and it beads and sheds water differently (I will be able to report back on the latter in 14 days when I can wash the car again LOL). Time will tell how this works out for me but I will likely have this car until at least the end of 2025.I recently had an 'all white' garage temporarily (something I had wanted in the past) but every time I see this colour (especially freshly revived) it makes me feel that a variety of nice colours is better!
I've been consuming so much F90 content lately..that I have come to the realization that maybe the 441kw super sedan acquisition trigger will be executed sooner rather than later. Just not sure if I should go 2020 Comp or facelift 21 Comp or go G8x..re reading this thread is not helping with the decision waiting on the horizon.
There’s some great deals on AutoTrader at the moment. Can’t go wrong with an F90
M5
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Yeah just not sure abt pre facelift..maybe OP can weigh in on this matter..let's see how this WW3 situation plays out in the next few months first though.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Non Comp vs. Comp
Power is much of a muchness... there is ALOT with both. If you want more power, you will have the same kind of options available to you. Knowing how I 'do' cars this was not too much of a consideration for me. Obviously if a comp makes sense and it is a tiny bit more, grab it. There is a reason that the Comp became the default - there really isn't as much in it as the marketing or the internet will have you believe.
The suspension bits of the comp can either be retrofitted or (in my case) I put the M performance suspension on mine to get the extra height adjustment. The comp has the rear dampers from an M8... Drive both and see if you can tell the difference on the road.
Comp wheels are forged (and very nice) but I prefer my M Performance forged set
Spec should guide you more than comp vs. non-comp IMHO.
LCI vs Pre LCI
Pre is louder because of no PPF (I have not physically seen this myself). Either way you're going to want an exhaust... these are modern european cars and they are criminally quiet in standard form. Mine has the titanium exhaust which was one of the things that made it attractive.
I prefer the look of the front of the Pre-LCI and the rear of the LCI. I am retrofitting the rear (this is an official BMW retrofit kit available). To me the difference is 'clinical & modern' new look vs. a bit more traditional of a look. The grilles appear more integrated somehow despite being more separated. The lights also have the last semblances of halos from BMW and a bit more character to them. I will probably retrofit a CS bonnet at some point if I don't put much more mileage on and end up keeping it long term. This is purely preference and would tick all my boxes.
The rear lights have a 3D and darker design that looks great on the LCI. Once you see the new design, you can't unsee it - The pics don't really do it much justice.
In terms of the interior I REALLY dislike the all-screen displays in the very latest M cars and although the LCI M5 is not as bad (still in a binnacle), I still like the analogue-look gauges in the pre-LCI. this is a genuine preference that many MANY people have. I have friends who have the newer cluster and at-best they say they have learned to live with it rather than learned to love it. The older cluster still does have variable contents but you mostly end up using the HUD and centre screen for that sort of thing anyway. The LCI doesn't also have physical aluminium surrounds around the dials - somehow it doesn't work for me. But hey I am getting old now.
I-drive I won't comment on since I just use carplay. What you MUST get is the B&W sound system. Having nicer individual colours inside is also a big plus. I wish I could have had a white interior on mine.
In terms of the driver aid packages, you can get like for like on each and to be honest, apart from adaptive cruise and the blind spot assistance, there is virtually nothing else that I use. I have two cars that can park themselves and have never found this to be anything more than a hit and miss time consuming gimmick that you use once or twice (and can barely trust in the case of the merc LOL).
I have a 2021 m5, incredible car and honestly don’t know what I’d change it for besides something silly.
If you do go for an m5 try get one with m performance exhaust(112k option) m sport standard exhaust is terrible. As said above the lci are too muted standard.
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TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
TBH given the age, the 2021 is probably what you should be looking at to have a fair amount of plan and for decent mileage, unless you're buying cash and intend to play around a bit. Similar considerations to me when I bought mine. The G90 will likely be released at that point which should release some nicer condition & spec cars into the market as well at decent pricing (as was the case when the LCI came out).
Hard to believe there are already F90s coming out of plan. The last few years really have flown by.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I randomly noticed one of the DRLs having gone bad last Friday. I am not sure when this actually happened - just noticed it in the reflection of a car in front of me (I am seldom in traffic and then in traffic, also seldom gazing into the reflection of the car in front ).
As mentioned I extended the motorplan not long ago. Having researched this issue briefly I would have thought they would replace the LED driver (or perhaps both the modules on the headlight) as the DRL 'channel' or diffuser itself is not an issue. Turns out it's a whole new headlight on the menu. The failed module "burns" the edges causing the yellowish light. The DIY video below shows you how to simply clean off/sand off that spot to have perfectly working lights afterwards. In the case of BMW under motorplan, there is no repair and the 'burned' edge is enough that they would rather replace the entire unit.... For R47K The modules are approx R1200 as far as I can tell.
It is a fairly involved job with bumper, grille and headlight needing to be removed to gain access even for just a repair.
Will report back after
I thought I would post the link to the repair video for those attempting it out of plan.
).As mentioned I extended the motorplan not long ago. Having researched this issue briefly I would have thought they would replace the LED driver (or perhaps both the modules on the headlight) as the DRL 'channel' or diffuser itself is not an issue. Turns out it's a whole new headlight on the menu. The failed module "burns" the edges causing the yellowish light. The DIY video below shows you how to simply clean off/sand off that spot to have perfectly working lights afterwards. In the case of BMW under motorplan, there is no repair and the 'burned' edge is enough that they would rather replace the entire unit.... For R47K
The modules are approx R1200 as far as I can tell.It is a fairly involved job with bumper, grille and headlight needing to be removed to gain access even for just a repair.
Will report back after
I thought I would post the link to the repair video for those attempting it out of plan.
The argument of Motorplan changes for me when it comes to an M. I had a 140 and when plan expired I decided not to renew it. services and such was affordable, moved on to an M2C besides the cost of parts and blah blah. the value lost when car is out of plan vs an M car within plan when trying to trade it is worth the 25k a year
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
100%
The actual servicing of an M is very affordable as well (basically the same as a non-M) but any kind of major repair shows up the relatively low production volumes in the cost, though this has improved drastically in recent years with more parts and design shared across more models and generations. They are also very reliable IMHO for what they are and the performance on offer... but like ALL these kinds of cars prevention is better than cure - especially in the realm of low volumes and high performance.
It sounds like gate-keeping when the veteran M owners give advice saying you should have a fund of 50-100K at the very least... or when I say things like you should have no car installment to worry about if you want an M off plan (the rationale being that the 15/'20/30K you'd be paying per month can be saved and put towards preventative work and you build that slush fund more quickly than you might think. It also isn't always going to be used or maxed out and becomes your pool for all of your cars (like with any hobby I guess).
For 25K or whatever the extension now costs, it is absolutely absurd to me that you would not think of taking it if you have an M. If you have the funds built up and are coming to the end of extensions, I am also forever left wondering how any of these rubbish little aftermarket warranties make sense to anyone when it comes to M/AMG/RS type cars (having had some of them myself before). They literally work against you doing any kind of preventative work which is what these cars really need. The base payouts will be fine on a 'faux-M', but on a real M won't even say hello. You can just do the preventative work yourself but then you can't claim from the warranty so that is a literal waste of time and money (this is while you are still unable to mod and they can still deny your claims usually using even less logic and common sense than motorplans do).
The warranty itself will not pay for preventative work if it is not ALREADY broken. IMHO better to spend 30K on something NOW on MY terms than wait for it to fail so the dogshit 'cover' that people buy as psychological and emotional crutches can pay R30K of a R100K bill that could be avoided (and somehow they are happy with this outcome as they 'only' had to pay the difference
). "I've never had a problem" crew... because the problems they've had in the past cost (in this instance) R32K and not R80-100KI have a 2019 M with a year left on plan..however a 2017 model with an absurd amount of extras has popped up on my radar..still on plan.. 4 months left without the option to extend ofcourse. Being on Plan for F90s-8x is almost non negotiable..so with a heavy heart would have to steer clear from the fancier option.
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very well put... and if you have a friendly service advisor you can get a lot more benefit from that year extension. case in point on my M2C, had taken it for brake fluid check and the service advisor as the name suggest in the truest form said we can make an argument to have the disc and pads changed with a little finesse and the language they know to BMWSA. The car has those M sport brakes and the discs and pads are well over the price of the extension which becomes a no brainer.! pay forward like your said I can't imagine any after market warranty ( under correction) that would be ok with a R34k bill coming their way without them combing through the t and c and coming back with a amount that will barely cover the labour. I have had nights scrolling through FB market place looking at a E46 M3 and dilusionally a E60 M5 but I sanity prevails and I know the M tax will rip me a new one! but I guess it also speaks to the kind of person. I kid you not I have seen F10 M5 with normal 540i disc brakes with caption "no money to spend". and that's just something clear as daylight to see, who know where else corners were taken and maintaining the car.. it is M tax for a reason100%
The actual servicing of an M is very affordable as well (basically the same as a non-M) but any kind of major repair shows up the relatively low production volumes in the cost, though this has improved drastically in recent years with more parts and design shared across more models and generations. They are also very reliable IMHO for what they are and the performance on offer... but like ALL these kinds of cars prevention is better than cure - especially in the realm of low volumes and high performance.
It sounds like gate-keeping when the veteran M owners give advice saying you should have a fund of 50-100K at the very least... or when I say things like you should have no car installment to worry about if you want an M off plan (the rationale being that the 15/'20/30K you'd be paying per month can be saved and put towards preventative work and you build that slush fund more quickly than you might think. It also isn't always going to be used or maxed out and becomes your pool for all of your cars (like with any hobby I guess).
For 25K or whatever the extension now costs, it is absolutely absurd to me that you would not think of taking it if you have an M. If you have the funds built up and are coming to the end of extensions, I am also forever left wondering how any of these rubbish little aftermarket warranties make sense to anyone when it comes to M/AMG/RS type cars (having had some of them myself before). They literally work against you doing any kind of preventative work which is what these cars really need. The base payouts will be fine on a 'faux-M', but on a real M won't even say hello. You can just do the preventative work yourself but then you can't claim from the warranty so that is a literal waste of time and money (this is while you are still unable to mod and they can still deny your claims usually using even less logic and common sense than motorplans do).
The warranty itself will not pay for preventative work if it is not ALREADY broken. IMHO better to spend 30K on something NOW on MY terms than wait for it to fail so the dogshit 'cover' that people buy as psychological and emotional crutches can pay R30K of a R100K bill that could be avoided (and somehow they are happy with this outcome as they 'only' had to pay the difference
