discussion Is it worth buying a diesel still?

[PsyCLown]

Hey all,

So I am sure most of you have noticed how the prices of the diesel BMW's have gone up (or just not dropped as they age), unlike with the 20i models.

This got me thinking, is there any benefit to buying a diesel vs a petrol when looking at something like a 320i, 320d, 330d.
I imagine most purchase a diesel variant over a petrol one due to the fuel economy, although considering the difference in purchase price and taking into consideration the difference in fuel economy does it make sense spending extra to go for a diesel variant over a petrol variant?

I did some quick calculations in Excel earlier today using an average fuel consumption of 8.5L/100km for a 20i vs 7L/100km for a 20d and if one were to drive the vehicle for 100 000KM the petrol variant would cost around R31k more in comparison. For the annual average of 15 000KM it was around R4700 more for the 20i.
Obviously there are various factors to consider when doing such a comparison, such as actual fuel consumption which would vary based on how you drive and the type of driving you do (city, highway, mixed) as well as the cost of petrol & diesel etc.

With that being said, I recall that the B48 can make some really good power on the wheels with a downpipe & tune. I believe power figures similar to a 330d and 0-100 times (which I have seen on YouTube) seem to be similar to that of a modded 330d (based on the video @YasserIsmail did, which was the 330d doing 0-100 in around 5.4s I think).

If going this route, the 20i becomes really appealing when comparing the power it can make compared to a 330d and the purchase price when compared to either a 320d or 330d. The B48 seems pretty reliable from what I have seen as well.

Based on the above, does it still make sense going for a diesel if one wants a daily which makes reasonable power?

 

[rodga]

My 2001 e46 330d touring is giving me 6.7l/100km currently on the obc reading
It would be less if it was only me driving but the wife has a heavier foot

Im sure the newer diesels are much more econical, so maybe check realworld consumption figures

 

[GravityLee]

I think BMW diesels hold their value because of perceived reliability as much as fuel economy.

 

[Mytfine]

The 20d if driven carefully can get down to low 4s on long trips and in the mid 5s around town. My e46 320d used to avearge 6.5 and i have a very heavy foot. Also the reliability is better and the maintenance is cheaper.

That said, nothing beats the sound of a straight six at full tilt, consumption be damned.

 

[sonic6]

In town driving I average in the 5.0L to 5.5L range and open road 4.0 to 4.5L with my F30 320d which is significantly more frugal than an equivalent 320i, so yes, going with the diesel engined BMW's are most certainly still relevant.

I wouldn't waste my time trying to get more power out of a B48 engine because it is always going to be more highly stressed than the equivalent diesel engined car and there are plenty of documented reliability issues and failure points of the engine that you can research. Rather go for the more powerful model from the start and save yourself from frustration.

 

[AshG108]

I would agree with the above sentiments, I did not like the G01 at all but this car has grown on me and from the E-series and F-series...the diesel is so consistent and well put together. The 20d is perfect for in town driving as well as highway, power is available on demand and it is no race car but it gives great consumption to match.
My drive to Vanderbijlpark with all my cars is a test I use to compare, my LCI 320d with Stage 2, DP & K&N filter...lowest I saw was 3.7l/100km at 125km/h consistent speed. The Little Polo went down to 3.8l/100km on the same but two people and full camping luggage, the X3 with full family, camping luggage and full tank of fuel saw it get down to 3.8l/100km at 125km/h consistently. I could not believe it at all, to a point where I would have thought many have exaggerated before I bought and experienced it.
I drove the petrol variants, they drove well but the diesel just somewhat has it pinned down to an enjoyable all rounder. Also given that this car's maintenance is relatively low compared to its rivals of VW, Audi and Merc...makes sense why their prices are holding quiet well. I am yet to meet a G-series owner who does not like their car or who has not been humbled by it through their ownership unless they went from diesel to M or 30 or 40d lol

 

[///M Individual]

The answer to your question is YES YES YES.

Personally, I will not own anything but a BMW diesel for the rest of my life and I have convinced family and friends of this as well.

Happy to own both an N47 and N57 and get to enjoy the best of both. If I were to upgrade in the future will only be to a B47 or B57.

 

[FILV]

Its an interesting question, especially with the B48 in the equation.
320i's really do look like a bargain since there are so many, and especially with the premium dealers take advantage of, and slap on a 320d or any Diesel for that matter ,now that the nation finally caught on to how rewarding they are to own and the demand is super high.

They are for sure are a performance bargain. Buy a base spec 320i, throw a map on it and you have minimum 170wkw and 400nm.
Add downpipe and a complimenting map, and you hit 200wkw and over 400nm. So you get that driveabilty torque of a diesel, but the different delivery with that max power higher in the rev range.

I was in the same boat and swore i would never buy a petrol Bmw. Well we now have a Mini Countryman S in the garage, together with my third 20D Car being a X3 20D.

My findings... quite interesting actually. Being back at the full time again,. my drive to work is 6km, robot to robot.
I expected the Mini to be averaging around 10L/100km. We have owned it for 3 months now, and it has not once gone over 8.8L/100km.
To compare, my X3 is yielding 9.2l/100km. The mini weights 1.6 Tons and the X3 1.8. My X3 has a downpipe and remap, the mini is stock.

Im very surprised with this engine. If you have to add a downpipe and drive in the same manner, it can be a surprisingly efficient Petrol engine.

The drive of both is completely different. You relaly get sued to the isntant get up and go of the D. I love the point and shoot cahacter of a diesel.
The petrol you nee distance for it to get the most out of it.

The big difference also is the D will never go over a certain number in L/100km, no matter how hard you drive, and its a nice low number. The Petrol on the other hand will give you hectic numbers and hurt you with amount of km's you get out on a full tnak.
I love the benefit of owning a D that you cna drive it hard and never worry about gettiing half the km's out of a tank.

So to you answer you question my thoughts are Yes it is still worth buying a D over the premium. Especially if you do a long distance trip every once in a while. I think that consumption long distance is jsut soemthing else. 1000km on a tank opposed to say at best 700km on an i, say twice or three times a year, the savings in year are already worth it. Although a well priced i and say you ahve a petrol allowance etc, a tuned i is a hell of a performance bargain.a 200wkw 400nm+ car for very little.

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

I did this whole exercise early last year. I owned a e90 320d previously and I now own a F30 20i B48. The price on a 20d was way more than the equivalent 20i. I just don't drive enough to ever make up the the difference of purchase price in fuel. I have done 23000km with my b48 over the last 19 months. That includes the drive to CPT from GP for my move. I now do about 500-600km a month. It was also a personal choice. I love the exhaust note and the way the b48 drives and was looking for a different ownership experience. My car is also tuned and I enjoy the heck out of it. The way it performs and man the way she sounds at WOT.
Think it comes down to personal preference.

 

[tamgoem]

Buy what you like.

 

[PsyCLown]

Buy what you like.

I'd like a 981 S, but the finance manager says no

I did this whole exercise early last year. I owned a e90 320d previously and I now own a F30 20i B48. The price on a 20d was way more than the equivalent 20i. I just don't drive enough to ever make up the the difference of purchase price in fuel. I have done 23000km with my b48 over the last 19 months. That includes the drive to CPT from GP for my move. I now do about 500-600km a month. It was also a personal choice. I love the exhaust note and the way the b48 drives and was looking for a different ownership experience. My car is also tuned and I enjoy the heck out of it. The way it performs and man the way she sounds at WOT.
Think it comes down to personal preference.

This is very much like my situation as well, I do not do a lot of mileage. I commute to work on my bike and will likely continue to do so majority of the time.

If I were to do 10 000KM a year that would likely be a lot. I seldom do long distance trips either and seldom do highway driving - most of my driving is around town. Even work and back I do not use the highway.


I loved my E90 320d, amazing car and fuel consumption was decent for the power it had. I was never able to achieve the super low fuel consumption some were claiming to get, I think I averaged just over 7L/100km and that was overall fuel consumption with around town driving, a bit of highway driving which I was doing at the time and a bit of spirited driving.

Biggest issue for me with the 20d was that I was left wanting a bit more power at times. So 30d makes more sense for me and that price difference between a 30d and 20i is quite significant. I do not think I would get close to doing the mileage needed to benefit from the fuel consumption savings of a diesel vs a petrol and also comparing a 30d to a 20i is not quite apples to apples. In this case I am thinking the 20i might be the happy medium and the option which makes the most sense for me and my situation.

@Sabretooth tiger Do you have any idea how difference the driving experience is between a tuned 20i vs a stock 30i is? Perhaps I should go test drive a 30i to get an idea of how it performs and make a decision from there.


I guess if one does a lot of mileage and does a lot of highway driving, then diesel certainly makes sense. You do need to rack up the mileage to benefit from the cost savings.
The torque certainly makes for an easy daily drive too. Seem a lot of guys on the forum do lots of highway and possibly higher than average mileage.

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

@Sabretooth tiger Do you have any idea how difference the driving experience is between a tuned 20i vs a stock 30i is? Perhaps I should go test drive a 30i to get an idea of how it performs and make a decision from there.

Hi bro. I have no idea to be honest. I was not after 330i power. I actually only wanted the sound of a catless downpipe. That said I enjoy the car so much more over stock and very happy I had it tuned.
Also my budget didn't make provision for a 330i so my pocket made me stick to the 320i 😅

 

[FILV]

@PsyCLown here is a good case for your question.

BMW 3 Series 320i M Sport Auto for sale in Centurion - ID: 27727257

Used 2016 BMW 3 Series 320i M Sport Auto For Sale - R 259 900 - ID: 27727257

www.autotrader.co.za

The closes 320D i could find with similar mileage is this, and its Non Msport.
Look at this price difference. the D's really do have a heavy premium over the i.

BMW 3 Series 320d auto for sale in Milnerton - ID: 27622537

Used 2017 BMW 3 Series 320d auto For Sale - R 309 900 - ID: 27622537

www.autotrader.co.za

 

[VinceM]

Diesels are super efficient and for commute purposes, difficult to match!

On the other hand, Diesels cant match the tone of petrol cars. Petrol cars just have that exhaust tone that brings a bigger grin!

I have heard modified diesels, its just doesnt sound the same. I have had three 3.0Ds, I’d buy then over again for “commute” purposes and odd family trip. For oodles of fun, give me a petrol car, any day……lets not forget M cars!

All depends on use case.

 

[FILV]

Op has owned a 320D so he knows the drive of a diesel.
This is simply the question - for +/- 40k less, is a 2016+ (so B48) 320i Worth the savings over an equivalent 320D.

 

[VinceM]

I have a bias towards bigger BMW engines,

If its 2.0 just go diesel.
If its vs B58 …Different ball game.

Summary:
B48 > N20
B47 > B48
B58 > B47
B58 vs B57 down to my earlier post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[KiLLRoYza]

Reliability is a big contributor. It's well known that the n47, m57 and n57 are all very reliable even when they have software etc.
BMW created reliability concerns for the 2.0 with the N20 motor, that changed peoples perspective.

In my opinion it depends on application.
F30 would be great with a B58
X3 or X5 would be better with N57

I would not consider 4 cyl cars again, not because they're bad, but because 6 cyl are so good.

 

[tamgoem]

Diesels are super efficient and for commute purposes, difficult to match!

On the other hand, Diesels cant match the tone of petrol cars. Petrol cars just have that exhaust tone that brings a bigger grin!

I have heard modified diesels, its just doesnt sound the same. I have had three 3.0Ds, I’d buy then over again for “commute” purposes and odd family trip. For oodles of fun, give me a petrol car, any day……lets not forget M cars!

All depends on use case.

I am sorry what.

We are talking 4pot turbo cars, please let us not talk about anything pleasant coming from them.

 

[PsyCLown]

@PsyCLown here is a good case for your question.

BMW 3 Series 320i M Sport Auto for sale in Centurion - ID: 27727257

Used 2016 BMW 3 Series 320i M Sport Auto For Sale - R 259 900 - ID: 27727257

www.autotrader.co.za

The closes 320D i could find with similar mileage is this, and its Non Msport.
Look at this price difference. the D's really do have a heavy premium over the i.

BMW 3 Series 320d auto for sale in Milnerton - ID: 27622537

Used 2017 BMW 3 Series 320d auto For Sale - R 309 900 - ID: 27622537

www.autotrader.co.za

Precisely, this is the cheapest 320d in M-sport trim (2015 or newer) with under 125 000KM I could find that is not being sold at a dodgy dealer (like the ones in JHB CBD).

https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used/2018-BMW-3-Series-320d-M-Sport-Auto-Gauteng-Johannesburg/9039503/

R369k which is over R100k extra for a 320i. If we want to compare something more similar in spec there is this car at WBC:

WeBuyCars | Sell Cars For Cash | Free Online Vehicle Valuations

www.webuycars.co.za

2018 320d M-Sport for R369k
2018 320i M-sport for R237k

Does the R132 000 premium for the 20d justify it? As much as I love a diesel, for me personally I cannot justify the price difference.
I plan on doing a downpipe and tune on whichever car I would purchase, be it the diesel or petrol and the petrol will give me more power and a better 0-100 time and I am hoping will have that little extra power I am looking for which was lacking with my previous 320d.

In terms of pricing, the step up from a modded 320i to a 330d feels hard to justify. 190WKW (modded 320i) vs 210WKW (modded 330d) and once again the diesel comes at a big premium and not many of them available.
For the price of a 330d with similar mileage to these cars (around 100 000KM), you are entering 40i territory.


It certainly goes back to what you want from a car and what type of driving you will be doing, how much mileage you'll be doing etc.
I am still left questioning the value for money with these diesels and I doubt my next car will be a diesel. The value for money offered by a 320i is seems very appealing in comparison and based on the mileage I'd likely do, the savings in fuel does not justify the price premium.


@KiLLRoYza I agree 100%, the N20 is an engine I would not consider. However the B48 seems as if it is a far more reliable engine in comparison.

 

[DRCraig]

Precisely, this is the cheapest 320d in M-sport trim (2015 or newer) with under 125 000KM I could find that is not being sold at a dodgy dealer (like the ones in JHB CBD).

https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used/2018-BMW-3-Series-320d-M-Sport-Auto-Gauteng-Johannesburg/9039503/

R369k which is over R100k extra for a 320i. If we want to compare something more similar in spec there is this car at WBC:

WeBuyCars | Sell Cars For Cash | Free Online Vehicle Valuations

www.webuycars.co.za

View attachment 25372



2018 320d M-Sport for R369k
2018 320i M-sport for R237k

Does the R132 000 premium for the 20d justify it? As much as I love a diesel, for me personally I cannot justify the price difference.
I plan on doing a downpipe and tune on whichever car I would purchase, be it the diesel or petrol and the petrol will give me more power and a better 0-100 time and I am hoping will have that little extra power I am looking for which was lacking with my previous 320d.

In terms of pricing, the step up from a modded 320i to a 330d feels hard to justify. 190WKW (modded 320i) vs 210WKW (modded 330d) and once again the diesel comes at a big premium and not many of them available.
For the price of a 330d with similar mileage to these cars (around 100 000KM), you are entering 40i territory.


It certainly goes back to what you want from a car and what type of driving you will be doing, how much mileage you'll be doing etc.
I am still left questioning the value for money with these diesels and I doubt my next car will be a diesel. The value for money offered by a 320i is seems very appealing in comparison and based on the mileage I'd likely do, the savings in fuel does not justify the price premium.


@KiLLRoYza I agree 100%, the N20 is an engine I would not consider. However the B48 seems as if it is a far more reliable engine in comparison.

The price difference you're referring to is the absolute worst case scenario. Check Autotrader; 2018 320i's with around 90k km odo still reaches well over R350K. I wouldn't let one comparison deter me from considering a 320d.

I can sense that you envisage a performance orientated car- 1/4mile, 0-100 times. How long will a 320i live up to your standard, moreover a 320d for that matter?

Why not wait a litter longer and add 2 more cylinders into the equation, be it diesel or petrol...