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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
E92 M3 'refresher' thread
- Thread starter Ratslaaf
- Start date
Ratslaaf
///Member
DieselFan said:What did that cost you? I'm going to guess 300$ or 300£Ratslaaf said:I was treated this morning to some awesome company and some even more awesome cars. It didn't feel right to take pics because of how rare these cars are, but I did take a snap of one of the newly refurbished steering wheels. My jaw hit the floor once I held it in my hands and studied the incredible attention to detail that went into the refurb. I just wish such talent was available locally...
I'm seriously thinking of going this route with mine as well, including the gear level and handbrake boots!
Here is mine I had redone. And while it is far from perfect I'm happy with the result. Cost R1250. Had it redone once previously already and the guy did an abortion on my wheel so had it redone somewhere else.
That's not my wheel I'm afraid, I saw the work yesterday and posted it up for reference. I believe it's in the 300 Euro region, but shipping adds another 120 Euro to it.
So yes I'm considering local options rather as well. The work on your wheel looks very, very good though!
Ratslaaf
///Member
I've started doing some work on getting the condition of the engine and drivetrain into a 'known' state. This is the beginning of a fair amount of work that is required for me to be happy with the mechanicals.
First up, I'm doing a full service on the car. While I'm at it, I also want to take the throttle actuators apart in order to check the conditions of the gears. I'm not having throttle issues at the moment, but want to replace the gears as they do wear out. I can't seem to get hold of gears overseas, so I'll ask my brother in the engineering industry to get me some made up.
I guess you don't need to go to this level when changing plugs, but it makes it a lot easier (and believe me, changing plugs on this car is far from simple).
Looks pretty clean from the top. But this is purely surface clean I'm afriad:
Remove top air filter cover. I don't smoke Dunhill, so that must've been there for a while
Air filter and plenum pipe removed
Air filter base removed. If you only want to change plugs, you can stop stripping here.
Intake plenum has a little oil in there. Bear in mind this is 100k km worth so not something to worry about
Plenum removed
And those 8 glorious looking throttle bodies staring back at you! The throttle actuators are buried deep beneath the wiring loom in the middle. This is going to suck...
I decided to park that for now and change the plugs. This was a mission as getting the coil packs removed isn't fun if you don't have a puller tool. Also getting your plug spanner into Cyl 4 and 8 is very fiddly - but I've managed to get them changed and plugs torqued to 28Nm eventually.
Getting the oil drained is also a little more involved, as there's two sumps in the car and both have plugs that needs to be removed. You should also remove all the oil from the oil filter base as there's around 250ml of oil there as well.
For the last 500km I've been running 1.5L of ATF in the engine in order to clean it. This stuff is awesome at cleaning the internals of the engine. Compare the pic from before the change:
To after the change:
I also want to touch on the notion that the spark plugs on these cars have knock sensors. This is not actually correct; these are simply Platinum NGK plugs
Not too much to them to be honest. It is, however, true that the car doesn't have knock sensors in the traditional sense. The way it works is that it makes use of a process called Ionic Knock detection. In principle, a spark is ignited and then directly after the spark, the coil pack puts 400VDC across the spark gap and the ECU measures the resulting inoic spectrum to determine the quality of the burn. You can determine much more about the quality of the burn than simple knocking by doing it this way. Very very interesting considering the amount of spark and measurement processes, per cylinder, when the car is running at 9000rpm. Quite cool actually.
First up, I'm doing a full service on the car. While I'm at it, I also want to take the throttle actuators apart in order to check the conditions of the gears. I'm not having throttle issues at the moment, but want to replace the gears as they do wear out. I can't seem to get hold of gears overseas, so I'll ask my brother in the engineering industry to get me some made up.
I guess you don't need to go to this level when changing plugs, but it makes it a lot easier (and believe me, changing plugs on this car is far from simple).
Looks pretty clean from the top. But this is purely surface clean I'm afriad:
Remove top air filter cover. I don't smoke Dunhill, so that must've been there for a while
Air filter and plenum pipe removed
Air filter base removed. If you only want to change plugs, you can stop stripping here.
Intake plenum has a little oil in there. Bear in mind this is 100k km worth so not something to worry about
Plenum removed
And those 8 glorious looking throttle bodies staring back at you! The throttle actuators are buried deep beneath the wiring loom in the middle. This is going to suck...
I decided to park that for now and change the plugs. This was a mission as getting the coil packs removed isn't fun if you don't have a puller tool. Also getting your plug spanner into Cyl 4 and 8 is very fiddly - but I've managed to get them changed and plugs torqued to 28Nm eventually.
Getting the oil drained is also a little more involved, as there's two sumps in the car and both have plugs that needs to be removed. You should also remove all the oil from the oil filter base as there's around 250ml of oil there as well.
For the last 500km I've been running 1.5L of ATF in the engine in order to clean it. This stuff is awesome at cleaning the internals of the engine. Compare the pic from before the change:
To after the change:
I also want to touch on the notion that the spark plugs on these cars have knock sensors. This is not actually correct; these are simply Platinum NGK plugs
Not too much to them to be honest. It is, however, true that the car doesn't have knock sensors in the traditional sense. The way it works is that it makes use of a process called Ionic Knock detection. In principle, a spark is ignited and then directly after the spark, the coil pack puts 400VDC across the spark gap and the ECU measures the resulting inoic spectrum to determine the quality of the burn. You can determine much more about the quality of the burn than simple knocking by doing it this way. Very very interesting considering the amount of spark and measurement processes, per cylinder, when the car is running at 9000rpm. Quite cool actually.
Ratslaaf
///Member
Surprise, surprise. The actuator gears will have to be replaced soon 
In fact, I'm surprised that they haven't failed yet.
The amount of dust inside is a dead giveaway
It's a little hard to see, but from the 6th tooth you can see serious wear on the output gear
The reducer gear also shows wear, although not the same amount. I will be flipping the gear 180deg in any case while I wait for replacements
Here's the second unit's output gear. Same sorry story
There's no thermal stress on the H-Bridge Mosfets that drive the motor (top left corner). This is a good sign that I do still have a little time before the gears are totally FUBAR.
I'll now have to get proper measurements made of the gears so that replacements can be manufactured. I kinda expected the gears to be worn, although I'm surprised the actuator still works with the amount of wear evident. Some pics I've seen look better than mine and those actuators have failed.
I'll also have to figure out a way to lubricate the throttle shafts going to the throttle bodies, as these are squeaking like crazy. This also contributes to the gear wear as the drive resistance goes through the roof.
I feel sorry for all the poor souls that had to have throttle actuators replaced at R15k a pop because of an inherent design flaw inside the actuators. BMW/Siemens can do us all a favour and make these gears as replacement parts. It would be a bargain even if it was R1k for a set of two plastic gears. Grrrrrr
In fact, I'm surprised that they haven't failed yet.The amount of dust inside is a dead giveaway
It's a little hard to see, but from the 6th tooth you can see serious wear on the output gear
The reducer gear also shows wear, although not the same amount. I will be flipping the gear 180deg in any case while I wait for replacements
Here's the second unit's output gear. Same sorry story
There's no thermal stress on the H-Bridge Mosfets that drive the motor (top left corner). This is a good sign that I do still have a little time before the gears are totally FUBAR.
I'll now have to get proper measurements made of the gears so that replacements can be manufactured. I kinda expected the gears to be worn, although I'm surprised the actuator still works with the amount of wear evident. Some pics I've seen look better than mine and those actuators have failed.
I'll also have to figure out a way to lubricate the throttle shafts going to the throttle bodies, as these are squeaking like crazy. This also contributes to the gear wear as the drive resistance goes through the roof.
I feel sorry for all the poor souls that had to have throttle actuators replaced at R15k a pop because of an inherent design flaw inside the actuators. BMW/Siemens can do us all a favour and make these gears as replacement parts. It would be a bargain even if it was R1k for a set of two plastic gears. Grrrrrr
the bit about the knock sensing on the spark plugs is amazing I wonder how sensitive it would be to using different spark plugs?
I wonder how sensitive it would be to using different spark plugs?
Ratslaaf
///Member
Pho3niX90 said:
That would be great, I'm just worried about the ability of 3d printer's resolution and how those printed gears will hold up to the heat, as these actuators sit right in the valley of the V8 motor. That being said, my brother is modeling up the gears and it might be a good idea to check the models with 3d prints before I go for a more solid solution. My idea is to have a few sets made as there's many S65 and S85 motors out there that WILL need them.
moranor@axis said:the bit about the knock sensing on the spark plugs is amazing
Heh, after I saw the plugs and questioned the parts guys, I decided to do a little reading to understand how it worked. I was pretty impressed with the amount of DSP horsepower they actually need to achieve this, considering there's 8 channels to monitor. Definitely not Mickey mouse stuff.
I dunno how sensitive it is to the actual plugs. I'd imagine it's more sensitive to the amount of pins and the pin to centre gap of the plug.
Pho3niX90
///Member
Ratslaaf said:Pho3niX90 said:
That would be great, I'm just worried about the ability of 3d printer's resolution and how those printed gears will hold up to the heat, as these actuators sit right in the valley of the V8 motor. That being said, my brother is modeling up the gears and it might be a good idea to check the models with 3d prints before I go for a more solid solution. My idea is to have a few sets made as there's many S65 and S85 motors out there that WILL need them.
moranor@axis said:the bit about the knock sensing on the spark plugs is amazing
Heh, after I saw the plugs and questioned the parts guys, I decided to do a little reading to understand how it worked. I was pretty impressed with the amount of DSP horsepower they actually need to achieve this, considering there's 8 channels to monitor. Definitely not Mickey mouse stuff.
I dunno how sensitive it is to the actual plugs. I'd imagine it's more sensitive to the amount of pins and the pin to centre gap of the plug.
Let me find out tomorrow. The printers they have aren't the everyday consumer 3d printers. I will ask him what type of plastic is used and the heat it can handle. Will keep you updated.
Ratslaaf said:
Me? I don't even know what the oem muffler mod is :rollsmile:
The plastic to be used in the 3D printer must have the following qualities or it will disintegrate:
Density, ASTM D792
Water Absorption, ASTM D570
Linear Mold Shrinkage, Flow, ASTM D955
Hardness, Rockwell R, ASTM D785
Tensile Strength, ASTM D638
Elongation at Yield, ASTM D638
Flexural Yield Strength, ASTM D790
Flexural Modulus, ASTM D790
Izod Impact, Notched, ASTM D256
Volume Resistivity, ASTM D257
Dielectric Strength, ASTM D149, Method A (Short-Time)
CTE, linear, Parallel to Flow, ASTM D696
Deflection Temperature at 0.46 MPa (66 psi), ASTM D648, Unannealed
Deflection Temperature at 1.8 MPa (264 psi), ASTM D648, Unannealed
Flammability, UL94
Doubt you shall have that out a 3D printer.
May be worthwhile doing it out of brass on a gear cutting machine.
Density, ASTM D792
Water Absorption, ASTM D570
Linear Mold Shrinkage, Flow, ASTM D955
Hardness, Rockwell R, ASTM D785
Tensile Strength, ASTM D638
Elongation at Yield, ASTM D638
Flexural Yield Strength, ASTM D790
Flexural Modulus, ASTM D790
Izod Impact, Notched, ASTM D256
Volume Resistivity, ASTM D257
Dielectric Strength, ASTM D149, Method A (Short-Time)
CTE, linear, Parallel to Flow, ASTM D696
Deflection Temperature at 0.46 MPa (66 psi), ASTM D648, Unannealed
Deflection Temperature at 1.8 MPa (264 psi), ASTM D648, Unannealed
Flammability, UL94
Doubt you shall have that out a 3D printer.
May be worthwhile doing it out of brass on a gear cutting machine.
S65B44
New member
Ratslaaf
///Member
a1exander said:All I want to know is how many Marlboros you smoked during the strip down
Hehe, you noticed how much I smoked hey. You not far behind
What was probably more entertaining for the fly on the wall was the choice words I was using in getting those coil packs out. And the long socket extender that fell into the bowels of the engine bay. And the screwdriver that slipped and took half my thumb with it. Twice.I should probably stay away from tools :roflol:
StealthM3 said:
Thanks man. Yup, I've seen that thread and will flatter the designer with a shameless copy. I did try sending him a PM asking for these parts but he never came back to me. So we back to 'Boer maak n plan'
Edit: the guy did get back to me, but I missed the PM. 400GBP for the gears on both actuators. Ouch... I'll have to let this one simmer in my mind a little
a1exander said:
Brass for the small reducer (it'll be a composite part) and Delrin for the output gear. That being said, the current reducer is a blend of PPA and PTFE, at least that's what's printed on the gear.
Shay_shay
New member
I'm seriously loving this thread. Having replaced one of my throttle actuators myself recently (I know that struggle of stripping to get down to the actuator :0)
So I have no idea how they say you're lazy :biglol: Impossible lol.
Thanks for that thread share stealth. Seeing that I only replaced one actuator the other ( God forbid ) is probably just holding up.
Will see if its cheaper going that route of getting the engineers to make those parts rather.
So I have no idea how they say you're lazy :biglol: Impossible lol.
Thanks for that thread share stealth. Seeing that I only replaced one actuator the other ( God forbid ) is probably just holding up.
Will see if its cheaper going that route of getting the engineers to make those parts rather.
Ratslaaf
///Member
Shay_shay said:
Hey man, you still have the old actuator? If you do I'd like to play with it in order to get it working. Mine's in pieces till we can get the models done right, which means my car don't work.
I'm planning on having a few sets professionally made so we can fix up your other actuator as well.
