Llew's F90 M5

[TurboLlew]

Oh, I also went to have a look at a few G90s and G99s while I was around.

Seems there are 24 (wagons and sedans) for sale brand new and as factory demos from BMW alone. Many are poorly or strangely specced which is probably not helping sell a R2.8M vehicle, though there are discounts on offer too... R67M worth of stock of what has become a very niche vehicle can't be fun to be sitting on, but even with discounts, first owners are likely to pay a hefty price come trade/sale time.

Again sitting in that interior and as someone who keeps cars longer than most, I think about my fairly simple LIN bus issue on my F90 caused by a dodgy LED, then I look at this 90's jol/club vibe of lights in the G90 and wonder what awaits in 5 or 7 years time, especially because it is more difficult than ever to DIY repairs and code/fix things. I do find the single-pane all-glass roof of the G99 glorious though...

We are two years into the launch of the G90 and I still see only one regularly. Seems the availability numbers back this up. By this point in the F90's lifecycle I feel like I saw more of them than M550s. Either owners are hiding them or it's that next tier of wealth that us plebs don't interact with LOL.

By comparison the M3 (and every other M) is selling like hotcakes.

I have no idea how Omar's, Milan Park, ADW etc are pricing these cars when you can walk into BMW and buy one for 500K-600K less for the same spec brand new or with equivalent mileage. They probably assumed this would be in short supply/limited runs.

Pricing is coming down on these as well.

 

[Bugger]

I think anyone with an F90 (Comp or not) should hold onto them. The G9x is going to prove to be a bit of a low key disaster for BMW in my opinion. As you have said, I also only see one every now and then, maybe every second week, and I WORK in Sandton, where you would expect to see a fair few. Between the polarising looks and the weight and the relative over abundance of tech, the age demographic this appeals to (that would be us more mature gentlemen lol) means that your typical M5 buyer is probably thinking nah, let me hold onto what I have got.

I tell you what I HAVE been seeing a lot of lately, is X3 and X4 M40i's!

 

[TurboLlew]

I think anyone with an F90 (Comp or not) should hold onto them. The G9x is going to prove to be a bit of a low key disaster for BMW in my opinion. As you have said, I also only see one every now and then, maybe every second week, and I WORK in Sandton, where you would expect to see a fair few. Between the polarising looks and the weight and the relative over abundance of tech, the age demographic this appeals to (that would be us more mature gentlemen lol) means that your typical M5 buyer is probably thinking nah, let me hold onto what I have got.

I tell you what I HAVE been seeing a lot of lately, is X3 and X4 M40i's!

Many factors here: It's that jump past R2.5M (or rather R2M). It becomes so much more of a mental barrier even if you can afford to finance it. The thought of having a R1M or 1.5M loan is daunting, and especially on a car that clearly isn't in demand and likely to be a boat anchor (weight/handling wise and in terms of resale/trade). If you have the cash you're not shopping for a G90/99 (IMHO).

While the interior speaks to the younger demo, the dynamics certainly will not. It is the least "M5" feeling M5 of all time to me. Perhaps it would appeal to even older folks than us? Unfortunately the dynamics are still the worst factor here. I'll live with the trading desk screen in a G80/2/7 because they are still incredible cars. I am not sure even at R1.8M this would be a 'buy' for me.

It's one of those where I feel whoever was going to buy one probably already has.

 

[Salt]

Llew...I'm keen to know...what would you choose if you had the cash now between an G80 M3 and an Alfa Romeo Guilia QV?

 

[TurboLlew]

Llew...I'm keen to know...what would you choose if you had the cash now between an G80 M3 and an Alfa Romeo Guilia QV?

It would be the Giulia

 

[Salt]

It would be the Giulia

Llew...really? 5 word reply? I am asking you because of your known detailed informative posts. Give me more man. Convince us lol.

 

[TurboLlew]

Llew...really? 5 word reply? I am asking you because of your known detailed informative posts. Give me more man. Convince us lol.

If you drive a Giulia it will convince you itself LOL. YOU should be convincing me about why I should carry on buying BMWs I think BMWs have lost their appeal to me. There is just nothing that I find exciting anymore where I spend extra time looking at cars, interesting specs and options or rare things. Instead I have to try to convince myself that I should like a car that I instinctively don't (Gxx) - I get that people do and that they are brand loyal. I am also loyal to BMW but that is wearing very thin now.



While at BMW the only thing I think I would buy is the Z4 M40i - most slept on and probably best-value car in the BMW range IMHO and it is about to go out of production (if it hasn't already).

Commuter: I'd go BYD what what. If you want an appliance, you may as well go for this or one of the others. You'll take a big hiding on ANY European EV to the degree that the loss will more than cover the cost of this little appliance.

Performance SUV: I'd go Cayenne or RSQ8 over ANY current BMW or Merc SUV. Watch this space next week and see why I am not too happy about Motorplan approach to maintenance either. You can have full Porsche or Audi support for a whole 5-8 years longer than BMW will allow.

Sedan: I have the one I want - no desire to change - there is no upgrade path in BMW anyway. They literally killed it.

Track Toy: I have the one I want - no desire to change

Cabrio/GT: AMG GT/SL63 with its new pricing or Bentley CGT. This tier of Merc is more 'traditional quality' than the cheapies/renault engined things, though not without fault. BMW doesn't really have an answer to these IMHO. The M8 aint it.

Sports Car: Ferrari 296 (its basically a V6TT/H version of my 4C) / 992.2 Targa


Supercar: BMW doesn't make one anyway

So yeah - I feel BMW really doesn't have much to offer me... and I sort of get the feeling I don't have much to offer them either. They clearly have plenty of customers without having to satisfy us unreasonable folks 🤣🤣

 

[Urban963]

I think brand loyalty with cars is a bit of a silly thing. Good brands don't always make good cars (look at BMW right this very instant, most of the newer Mercs, whatever the hell Ferrari is doing).
Best approach in my mind is loyalty to the driving experience (or whichever cliche metaphor you prefer).

Best case, grab an E92 M3, C63 AMG and B7 RS4 and then you're done. You have the motors, the looks and a wagon. The circle is complete, everyone loves them and they'll only ever gain value.

 

[Salt]

If you drive a Giulia it will convince you itself LOL. YOU should be convincing me about why I should carry on buying BMWs I think BMWs have lost their appeal to me. There is just nothing that I find exciting anymore where I spend extra time looking at cars, interesting specs and options or rare things. Instead I have to try to convince myself that I should like a car that I instinctively don't (Gxx) - I get that people do and that they are brand loyal. I am also loyal to BMW but that is wearing very thin now.



While at BMW the only thing I think I would buy is the Z4 M40i - most slept on and probably best-value car in the BMW range IMHO and it is about to go out of production (if it hasn't already).

Commuter: I'd go BYD what what. If you want an appliance, you may as well go for this or one of the others. You'll take a big hiding on ANY European EV to the degree that the loss will more than cover the cost of this little appliance.



Performance SUV: I'd go Cayenne or RSQ8 over ANY current BMW or Merc SUV. Watch this space next week and see why I am not too happy about Motorplan approach to maintenance either. You can have full Porsche or Audi support for a whole 5-8 years longer than BMW will allow.



Sedan: I have the one I want - no desire to change - there is no upgrade path in BMW anyway. They literally killed it.

Track Toy: I have the one I want - no desire to change

Cabrio/GT: AMG GT/SL63 with its new pricing or Bentley CGT. This tier of Merc is more 'traditional quality' than the cheapies/renault engined things, though not without fault. BMW doesn't really have an answer to these IMHO. The M8 aint it.



Sports Car: Ferrari 296 (its basically a V6TT/H version of my 4C) / 992.2 Targa


Supercar: BMW doesn't make one anyway

So yeah - I feel BMW really doesn't have much to offer me... and I sort of get the feeling I don't have much to offer them either. They clearly have plenty of customers without having to satisfy us unreasonable folks 🤣🤣

Hi Llew,

Thanks for the reply - I've mentioned before that last year I went to test drive the F40 M135i and the new Audi S4. Both are very goodlooking cars imo (I know many don't agree with me), they are also next level inside, but they were so subdued in terms of driving experience compared to my 140...it felt boring to be honest. And I am not knocking the cars at all. So, I decided to keep the 140 and pour some money into the car rather. Now 2 years later and I am again thinking about what next...the F90 M5 is what I would consider. I feel like I need something a little more grown up going forward but still on the edge driving dynamics - and I am keen to see if the F90 tick those boxes. Its either that...or the Giulia QV...which I have admired for the past few years. My only dilemma is the pre facelift infotainment systems does not review well...the facelift is I her much better...also digital dash. The pre facelift is +- inline with the F90 M5 pricing but the facelift QV is G80 pricing.

Ther other alternative is buy a small QV, drive the bakkie daily and keep the 140 and put the biggest turbo I can find on it

 

[Salt]

I think brand loyalty with cars is a bit of a silly thing. Good brands don't always make good cars (look at BMW right this very instant, most of the newer Mercs, whatever the hell Ferrari is doing).
Best approach in my mind is loyalty to the driving experience (or whichever cliche metaphor you prefer).

Best case, grab an E92 M3, C63 AMG and B7 RS4 and then you're done. You have the motors, the looks and a wagon. The circle is complete, everyone loves them and they'll only ever gain value.

Agreed - I broke that idea when I bought our first GWM P-Series bakkie...now on the 2nd P-Series already and will most def be replacing that in the coming years with the P300. Excellent quality, just as capable off road as anything else similar (personally proved both dunes and wilderness driving) and safety is top class - wrote the first one off when a drunk driver side swiped us on the M2 highway and we struck the middle highway lamppost at 100km/h (trip log verified) dead center head on - the cabin did not shift an inch. Buy value for money...

 

[TBP88]

I think brand loyalty with cars is a bit of a silly thing. Good brands don't always make good cars (look at BMW right this very instant, most of the newer Mercs, whatever the hell Ferrari is doing).
Best approach in my mind is loyalty to the driving experience (or whichever cliche metaphor you prefer).

Best case, grab an E92 M3, C63 AMG and B7 RS4 and then you're done. You have the motors, the looks and a wagon. The circle is complete, everyone loves them and they'll only ever gain value.

No use being brand loyal when the brand isn't loyal to it's own identity, is there? Remember all the carping when merc made the C63 a 2l 4cyl hybrid hahaha. BMW has done much the same with the recent launches IMHO, the cars are all fat and ugly and ungainly. Nothing like the sleek stuff of 20yrs+ ago now.

Ironically this is one of the things Porsche has done pretty well. They've managed to both create sub markets (say Macan/Cayenne/Taycan) that are distinct from their core products but don't bastardize their core products.

The fact they still make a manual 500hp N/A car and sell them by the bucketload at absurd costs shows there is a way...