Firstly, I’m a noobie to the forum. My wife has a 2011 Mini Cooper S Convertible, acquired at the time with approx. 17,000 km. To date, the vehicle has a full-service record from BMW Sandton and now has approx. 115,000 km, still in very good condition and the vehicle has given us very few issues in the past.
About 2-3 weeks ago, when I drove the vehicle, the performance was extremely poor, having for the first time to change gears to ascent hills. There was no warning indicator, nor smoke coming from the exhaust.
My wife, which is the norm, took the vehicle to BMW Sandton to sort out the “power” problem. As per the norm, BMW Sandton provided transport for my wife back home.
Later during the day, my wife received a call from BMW Sandton informing her that the engine needed to be replaced. I then asked to speak to BMW Sandton so that I could understand the issue. I was informed that on BMW Sandton removing the sump, in which they found metal in the oil, they then inserted a camera into the motor which resulted in the diagnosis was that the No.3-cylinder piston ring was cracked, which caused oil build up in the cylinder and now “the something and something” was burnt and damaged beyond repair. I was further informed that BWM Sandton did not repair engines, and should they fix the problem, it would be an engine replacement. It was also indicated to me that my options were:
· Take the car to someone else for an engine overhaul, but obviously no guarantees
· The cost for BMW Sandton to replace the engine would be around ZAR125k, with guarantees.
· Due to age of the car (book value is between ZAR120k – ZAR140k) vs the new engine replacement cost, it may be better to trade the vehicle in for a replacement vehicle.
At this time, giving that a suitable replacement vehicle would be around ZAR500k, and to feel comfortable that the vehicle was in perfect working order, I was leaning towards the “new” engine solution. I asked for some time to consider my options.
Then, on a subsequent call with BMW Sandton, after complaining about the severity of the failure, given the service record, and BMW indicating to me that this is a rare occurrence, I was informed that BMW Sandton would escalate the case to BMW Head Office, to see if they would assist with a co-payment. Obviously, the outcome, “surprise, surprise” was that after consideration due to the age of the vehicle there would be no assistance.
Then, after discussing the issue with my brother, who subsequently put me in contact with a 3rd party Mini expert (Paul Cloete at Pauls Mini-Workshop), I decided that it would be best for Paul to fetch the car for a 2nd opinion as Paul convinced me that there would be no real difference between him overhauling the engine compared to a new engine with regards to my “comfort” and that the cost would be around 25k to 30k.
A couple of days later, after Paul arranged for the vehicle to be towed from BMW Sandton to his shop, he called with GOOD NEWS – THE VEHICLE IS FIXED, NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. He informed me that he changed the spark plugs and coils which were dirty, and the vehicle is running correctly even after he took it on a 70km test drive.
I promptly made a formal complaint to BMW South Africa and received confirmation of the complaint. Since then, except a call from BWM South Africa complaints department, indicating that since BMW Sandton had not responded adequately the complaint has been escalated…to date, except for the e-mail outlined below, and subsequent e-mails asking for feedback….no additional feedback
During this time, on my request, BMW has provided pictures of the cylinder and Paul provided pictures of the sump (I can upload if anyone is interested)
Please see below an extract of the last e-mail correspondence I sent to BMW
1) Although I appreciate the pictures (“read cylinder pictures”), is there a way to verify the date stamp...it seems strange that a diagnostic tool would take a picture without an automated date stamp, also
2) I find it strange that BMW, took it on their own account to remove and replace the sump for camera access, which I believe would have involved the loss and replacement of oil and labour usage without passing this cost on to us. I would have assumed that after the initial diagnostics we would have got a call indicating further investigation is required which will involve XYZ and the cost would be X...we did not get this, further,
3) I have asked Paul to take some pictures of the sump to see if it was removed...the pictures are date stamped and there is a partial number in one of the pictures which can be verified that it is from the vehicle in question. In Paul’s opinion, backed by the picture evidence, attached, this sump was not removed
4) My suggestion, which I will confirm with Paul’s permission, is that someone from Mini goes to Paul’s workshop and together they gain access to the 3rd cylinder and carry out a diagnosis
Finally, I understand that this vehicle is old, but I require peace of mind regarding this vehicle, which I had by making sure that the vehicle had all its services carried out by the authorised dealer.... Now, this has been replaced by the impression of a potential scam at BMW Sandton, where the outcome for me, is to buy a new car and the best outcome for BMW Sandton was not only to sell me a new car, but also accept a "very damaged" Mini at a very low trade-in value, and then sell the "very damaged" Mini at the non-damaged market price.
At the very least the outcome for BMW Sandton ….the “replacement” of a perfectly good engine?
At worse a complaint….where nothing happens?
Email ends
During discussions, BMW Sandton has indicated that the fix by Paul is only temporary in nature. Paul has indicated that there was fuel in the oil due to the misfiring of the engine. In my opinion, it was not in Paul’s interest to inform that the vehicle was fine, he could easily have told me that he had overhauled the engine and charged me the 25k to 30k.
Thoughts would be appreciated…can a cylinder problem be fixed temporary, is the fact that fuel is in the oil…terminal? Can both parties be correct as Paul has had no reason to check for cylinder damage, although he has now removed the sump and cannot see any reason to check further?
About 2-3 weeks ago, when I drove the vehicle, the performance was extremely poor, having for the first time to change gears to ascent hills. There was no warning indicator, nor smoke coming from the exhaust.
My wife, which is the norm, took the vehicle to BMW Sandton to sort out the “power” problem. As per the norm, BMW Sandton provided transport for my wife back home.
Later during the day, my wife received a call from BMW Sandton informing her that the engine needed to be replaced. I then asked to speak to BMW Sandton so that I could understand the issue. I was informed that on BMW Sandton removing the sump, in which they found metal in the oil, they then inserted a camera into the motor which resulted in the diagnosis was that the No.3-cylinder piston ring was cracked, which caused oil build up in the cylinder and now “the something and something” was burnt and damaged beyond repair. I was further informed that BWM Sandton did not repair engines, and should they fix the problem, it would be an engine replacement. It was also indicated to me that my options were:
· Take the car to someone else for an engine overhaul, but obviously no guarantees
· The cost for BMW Sandton to replace the engine would be around ZAR125k, with guarantees.
· Due to age of the car (book value is between ZAR120k – ZAR140k) vs the new engine replacement cost, it may be better to trade the vehicle in for a replacement vehicle.
At this time, giving that a suitable replacement vehicle would be around ZAR500k, and to feel comfortable that the vehicle was in perfect working order, I was leaning towards the “new” engine solution. I asked for some time to consider my options.
Then, on a subsequent call with BMW Sandton, after complaining about the severity of the failure, given the service record, and BMW indicating to me that this is a rare occurrence, I was informed that BMW Sandton would escalate the case to BMW Head Office, to see if they would assist with a co-payment. Obviously, the outcome, “surprise, surprise” was that after consideration due to the age of the vehicle there would be no assistance.
Then, after discussing the issue with my brother, who subsequently put me in contact with a 3rd party Mini expert (Paul Cloete at Pauls Mini-Workshop), I decided that it would be best for Paul to fetch the car for a 2nd opinion as Paul convinced me that there would be no real difference between him overhauling the engine compared to a new engine with regards to my “comfort” and that the cost would be around 25k to 30k.
A couple of days later, after Paul arranged for the vehicle to be towed from BMW Sandton to his shop, he called with GOOD NEWS – THE VEHICLE IS FIXED, NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. He informed me that he changed the spark plugs and coils which were dirty, and the vehicle is running correctly even after he took it on a 70km test drive.
I promptly made a formal complaint to BMW South Africa and received confirmation of the complaint. Since then, except a call from BWM South Africa complaints department, indicating that since BMW Sandton had not responded adequately the complaint has been escalated…to date, except for the e-mail outlined below, and subsequent e-mails asking for feedback….no additional feedback
During this time, on my request, BMW has provided pictures of the cylinder and Paul provided pictures of the sump (I can upload if anyone is interested)
Please see below an extract of the last e-mail correspondence I sent to BMW
1) Although I appreciate the pictures (“read cylinder pictures”), is there a way to verify the date stamp...it seems strange that a diagnostic tool would take a picture without an automated date stamp, also
2) I find it strange that BMW, took it on their own account to remove and replace the sump for camera access, which I believe would have involved the loss and replacement of oil and labour usage without passing this cost on to us. I would have assumed that after the initial diagnostics we would have got a call indicating further investigation is required which will involve XYZ and the cost would be X...we did not get this, further,
3) I have asked Paul to take some pictures of the sump to see if it was removed...the pictures are date stamped and there is a partial number in one of the pictures which can be verified that it is from the vehicle in question. In Paul’s opinion, backed by the picture evidence, attached, this sump was not removed
4) My suggestion, which I will confirm with Paul’s permission, is that someone from Mini goes to Paul’s workshop and together they gain access to the 3rd cylinder and carry out a diagnosis
Finally, I understand that this vehicle is old, but I require peace of mind regarding this vehicle, which I had by making sure that the vehicle had all its services carried out by the authorised dealer.... Now, this has been replaced by the impression of a potential scam at BMW Sandton, where the outcome for me, is to buy a new car and the best outcome for BMW Sandton was not only to sell me a new car, but also accept a "very damaged" Mini at a very low trade-in value, and then sell the "very damaged" Mini at the non-damaged market price.
At the very least the outcome for BMW Sandton ….the “replacement” of a perfectly good engine?
At worse a complaint….where nothing happens?
Email ends
During discussions, BMW Sandton has indicated that the fix by Paul is only temporary in nature. Paul has indicated that there was fuel in the oil due to the misfiring of the engine. In my opinion, it was not in Paul’s interest to inform that the vehicle was fine, he could easily have told me that he had overhauled the engine and charged me the 25k to 30k.
Thoughts would be appreciated…can a cylinder problem be fixed temporary, is the fact that fuel is in the oil…terminal? Can both parties be correct as Paul has had no reason to check for cylinder damage, although he has now removed the sump and cannot see any reason to check further?
