xHP Gearbox Flashes Available

[corp]

What happens to the current adaption values when flashed? When I had my box looked at by ZF earlier the year, there was indication of wear on ring A which meant it was a 50/50 chance to do a oil service and not have issues.
I would like to flash xHP but concerned about the wear that already exists and the gearbox not adapting correctly of values are reset.

I saw xHP says there isn’t any additional wear with Stage 1 and Stage 2 when flashed.


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What happens to the current adaption values when flashed? When I had my box looked at by ZF earlier the year, there was indication of wear on ring A which meant it was a 50/50 chance to do a oil service and not have issues.
I would like to flash xHP but concerned about the wear that already exists and the gearbox not adapting correctly of values are reset.

I saw xHP says there isn’t any additional wear with Stage 1 and Stage 2 when flashed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[akash]

Is there an difference in the flash tunes when loaded by RK Motion or via the XHP flash app on an android device?

If you consider the flash license that you need to pay, then the pricing in this thread is OK.
However, if you can find a member with a super license and is willing to flash for you at no charge then you can realize significant savings...

The way i understood it, after reading the manual is;

The super license is locked to a single vehicle, it only allows you to change between stages 1,2 or 3 whenever you want. The general flash license, is way cheaper, also locked to one car and it limited to stage that you purchase at the time of flashing.

If someone has done what you mentioned above then I would love to hear it and if so, then there is no point to 'dealers' or 'resellers' which i doubt.

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I hope someone can clear it up but it is the way I understand it from the text below (from the XHP manual):

2.4.xHP Licenses
Once you’re done with the basic process (see Chapter 3 in this manual) you may proceed to the xHP Store and buy the appropriate items for your vehicle. Without buying a license you are restricted to reading/deleting fault codes and do a full read on your TCU. To flash your vehicle,you need to buy either the “General Flash License”, or the “Super License” from the xHP inApp - Store.

2.4.1 General Flash License
This License enables unlimited flashing for a single vehicle. With the “General Flash License” you can either buy and flash OTS Maps out of the xHP in-App Store, or develop your own maps (see Chapter 2.6) and flash them to your vehicle. When purchasing the license, xHP will lock it to the vehicle stored on the device. So before purchasing a license, you need to connect the app one time to your vehicle and store it. The app will ask you for that on the first connect.

2.4.2 Super License
The Super License works equal to the “General Flash License”, but includes all available OTS Maps in one sweep. You will get the Flash License + Stage 1,2 and 3 Maps with a discount, compared to purchasing the items separately. This will give you the possibility to try all 3 Maps and switch between them as often as you like. Map switching can be done within 2 minutes. Please note, that the Super License is not available for all vehicles. You need to store your car onto the device, before you are able to purchase the Super License. If the License is not available for your car, the app will message you on purchase accordingly.

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I also thought this works in a similar way to MHD, the flash app is locked to the cars VIN.

 

[sash]

What happens to the current adaption values when flashed? When I had my box looked at by ZF earlier the year, there was indication of wear on ring A which meant it was a 50/50 chance to do a oil service and not have issues.
I would like to flash xHP but concerned about the wear that already exists and the gearbox not adapting correctly of values are reset.

I saw xHP says there isn’t any additional wear with Stage 1 and Stage 2 when flashed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I found this again in the manual...., yeah I am a male who actually reads the manual

Q: I just flashed my transmission, but the shifts are bad.
A: Your transmission may behave weird, right after flash, e.g. starting in 3rdgear. This issue should clear within a few hundred meters of driving. The transmission has extensive adaption -algorithms, to keep shift quality in check over a full life time and even with heavily worn out clutches. The adaptions applied,are very sensitive to abrupt changes, as they operate in a narrow window. Therefore, shift quality can suffer in the first few hundred miles, after doing an oil -change, replacing transmission hardware, or changing the TCU software, like with xHP. Don’t overstress your transmission during this adaption phase. The best way to adapt your transmission, is just normal driving in D mode with lots of varying speeds and shifts. We DO NOT advise anybody to clear the adaption values to speed up the process. Depending on the current
wear state of your transmission, this can lead to unwanted and permanent bad results.

My understanding is that XHP flash is not resetting Adaptation values, but shift times and torque convertor lockup. They allow the gearbox to adapt to the new settings on its own, but do not reset them.

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There is no increased wear with stage 1 and 2, but if the car is raced excessively with stage 3 then yes it will wear faster.

My interpretation is, if I had a manual and changed slowly even when racing, my clutch would last longer than if I raced less and snap changed all the time.

 

[corp]

This definitely answers some questions. Thank you for the info.


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[sash]

Taken from e90post

Stage 1 Setup:
Optimized D Shiftpoints to facilitate sporty, yet economy style driving
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Lowered minimum RPM limit manual mode
Adapted Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in Manual Mode
Start in 1st Gear in Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes
6HP21 TQ Limits: 413 ftlb (560 Nm), 6HP28 TQ Limits: 626 ftlb (850 Nm)

Stage 2 Setup:
Optimized D & S Shiftpoints for better acceleration in part and full throttle situations
25% faster, firmer, sportier upshifts in D/S/M mode
Faster paddle response time
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Raised Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in D & Manual Mode
Start in 1st Gear in Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes
6HP21 TQ Limits: 479 ftlb (650 Nm), 6HP28 TQ Limits: 737 ftlb (1000 Nm)

Stage 3 setup:
Optimized D & S Shiftpoints for better acceleration in part and full throttle situations
25% faster shifts in D mode
50% faster & very firm upshifts in S/M Mode
Instant paddle response time
Removed Rev - Limiters in M (True Manual Mode)
Race-like rev-match Downshifts (Throttle Blip) first time ever on Diesel BMWs
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Lowered minimum RPM limit manual mode (5/6th gear)
Adapted Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in D & Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes"
6HP21 TQ Limits: removed, 6HP28 TQ Limits: removed

Notice that the above text refers to 6hp21 and 6hp28, but our 3.0 have 6hp26 boxes, will see if I can find out about the torque limits.

 

[SubLoaded]

Taken from e90post

Stage 1 Setup:
Optimized D Shiftpoints to facilitate sporty, yet economy style driving
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Lowered minimum RPM limit manual mode
Adapted Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in Manual Mode
Start in 1st Gear in Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes
6HP21 TQ Limits: 413 ftlb (560 Nm), 6HP28 TQ Limits: 626 ftlb (850 Nm)

Stage 2 Setup:
Optimized D & S Shiftpoints for better acceleration in part and full throttle situations
25% faster, firmer, sportier upshifts in D/S/M mode
Faster paddle response time
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Raised Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in D & Manual Mode
Start in 1st Gear in Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes
6HP21 TQ Limits: 479 ftlb (650 Nm), 6HP28 TQ Limits: 737 ftlb (1000 Nm)

Stage 3 setup:
Optimized D & S Shiftpoints for better acceleration in part and full throttle situations
25% faster shifts in D mode
50% faster & very firm upshifts in S/M Mode
Instant paddle response time
Removed Rev - Limiters in M (True Manual Mode)
Race-like rev-match Downshifts (Throttle Blip) first time ever on Diesel BMWs
Optimized Shift Strategy for up/downhill driving
Optimized Warmup Behaviour
Optimized Torque Converter Lockup in 1st/2nd/3rd gear
Lowered minimum RPM limit manual mode (5/6th gear)
Adapted Torque Limits for Tuned engines
Kickdown delete in D & Manual Mode
Gear Display in Dash in D/S/M Modes"
6HP21 TQ Limits: removed, 6HP28 TQ Limits: removed

Notice that the above text refers to 6hp21 and 6hp28, but our 3.0 have 6hp26 boxes, will see if I can find out about the torque limits.

Also noticed on their website that I could only get results back for the N53 and not for the N52..

 

[sash]

Some more info I found, although some is repetitive....

Here's a description of the Stages:

Stage 1 is based on the Alpina file and sports most of the things people know from the Alpina flash. The most noticeable thing changed is the Warmup behaviour. Whereas the Alpina sometimes shifts quite harsh, this flash smooths things out by leaving the TCC completely open in Gear 1 - 4. This helps, to speed up warmup of the trans and removes some harshness on shifts. Those transmissions are all together old now with a lot of miles, so things that where perfect when new, now may not be as such anymore. When everythings cold, these things show up the most. Kickdown is removed in S/M mode and some minor issues with the Sport Mode and the rev-counter are solved. Besides from that, this is the flash to go for people wanting OEM software, but don't want to play around with WinkFP etc.

Stage 2 has pretty much any area changed. From Torque Converter control (warm, cold, slip control) over all Shiftmaps (D/S/M, uphill, downhill driving, Warmup, Hotmode) to the TQ reductions and clutch timings in shift transitions. This map reflects, (IMHO) how a proper Transmission setup should look like. The driving experience is more like with a Manual transmission. Kickdown is removed in D/S/M. Very low TC slip (only when really necessary), proper RPM/TQ ratios to make use of the N54/N55 rev-range and extremely fast gear shifts in M mode. Rev range is extended to 7200 RPM, TQ Limiters are upped to 516 lbft (700 Nm).

Stage 3 builds on Stage 2 and adds True Manual Mode (no upshift at Engine Limiter), further upped 737 ftlb (1000 Nm) torque limiters and a 10% Line Pressure increase. Additionally this Stage is planned as a Map Pack, with several versions to accomodate various driver styles and it will be the first to get further developments like throttle blips in D mode, multi downshifts on braking in corners etc.

 

[Rayzor]

Awesome achievement to be the first and only official provider in SA, well done RK :cartel:

 

[sash]

I cannot confirm if bmw used the second gen 6hp, according to Wikipedia, it 2as mainly used by jaguar, but this is interesting info none the less....
Quoting member e60535i on e90post

Please keep in mind... that the 6HP (2nd-Generation) transmission shifts as fast as and/or even faster than the 8HP. This is confirmed by ZF itself. ZF used the 6HP as their shift-speed benchmark, while designing the 8HP... because the 6HP was already SO FAST... as fast as DCT implementations (when the software is tuned to its potential).

Here is direct quote from ZF:
On the new ZF 8-speed transmission – ZF engineers had set the bar high to produce a new benchmark for automatic car transmissions. The second generation of the ZF 6HP 6-speed transmission, that entered production only in 2006, defines standards that are hard to top: reaction times faster than human perception, direct engine linkage by early-stage torque converter lock-up and intelligent, adaptive control software, that almost reads the driver's intentions from his foot.
-ZF Friedrichshafen AG

Other quotes from professional automotive publications (who either interviewed ZF or attended ZF press events):
In terms of shift comfort, response and shifting speed, the new 8-speed transmission operates at the already very high level of the second generation of the ZF 6-speed automatic.
-Horsepower Sports

On the new ZF 8-Speed automatic – Shift quality, response and overall feel at least match the current ZF6, which is widely regarded as the best there is.
-The Motor Report

Dr. Gerhard Wagner, Group Executive ZF car driveline division ZF, when asked if the ZF 6-speed automatic is outdated with the introduction of the ZF 8-speed:
"Certainly not. The 6-speed automatic transmission will continue to provide the benchmark with the reaction and shifting times of a dual clutch transmission. We also lead the competition when it comes to shifting comfort and consumption. Therefore, the 6-speed will surely remain in our program until 2015".
-ZF Friedrichshafen AG

As a matter of fact, a Chinese ZF affilitate is still producing the 6HP under license... it's still that good.

RBT-Tuning is not joking when he says that the 6HP is an immensely competent transmission... even BY TODAY's STANDARDS.

So, if the person complaining about shift speed is not experiencing shifts that are at least as fast as the 8HP... something IS WRONG (likely not having flashed the appropriate map... or a potential function of the ECU tune).

But, to ever say that it's because the 8HP is so much more recent/advanced is false. I have written many pieces on this... quoting from ZF itself... there is NO DIFFERENCE in SHIFT SPEED POTENTIAL between the 6HP (Gen-2) and 8HP transmissions. Absolutely ZERO. As a matter of fact, if anything, it's the opposite. ZF quotes FASTER shift times with the 6HP (Gen-2) transmission than with its 8HP transmissions. This is likely because the 8HP had to fit within the same space as the 6HP (for each of the torque capacities, per design requirements)... which likely meant the 8HP could not dissipate as much heat. This is why you'll notice almost NONE of the 8HP transmissions accomplish anywhere near full in-load shifts from the factory (instead resorting to massive torque reductions during shifts... with farts/burps/fuel cuts/timing retarding)... while the 6HP can handle near-full in-load shifts more readily.

Enjoy one of the greatest transmissions ever produced... and the fact we can now tune it to its potential with xHP!

 

[Keithan@RKmotion]

I cannot confirm if bmw used the second gen 6hp, according to Wikipedia, it 2as mainly used by jaguar, but this is interesting info none the less....
Quoting member e60535i on e90post

Please keep in mind... that the 6HP (2nd-Generation) transmission shifts as fast as and/or even faster than the 8HP. This is confirmed by ZF itself. ZF used the 6HP as their shift-speed benchmark, while designing the 8HP... because the 6HP was already SO FAST... as fast as DCT implementations (when the software is tuned to its potential).

Here is direct quote from ZF:
On the new ZF 8-speed transmission – ZF engineers had set the bar high to produce a new benchmark for automatic car transmissions. The second generation of the ZF 6HP 6-speed transmission, that entered production only in 2006, defines standards that are hard to top: reaction times faster than human perception, direct engine linkage by early-stage torque converter lock-up and intelligent, adaptive control software, that almost reads the driver's intentions from his foot.
-ZF Friedrichshafen AG

Other quotes from professional automotive publications (who either interviewed ZF or attended ZF press events):
In terms of shift comfort, response and shifting speed, the new 8-speed transmission operates at the already very high level of the second generation of the ZF 6-speed automatic.
-Horsepower Sports

On the new ZF 8-Speed automatic – Shift quality, response and overall feel at least match the current ZF6, which is widely regarded as the best there is.
-The Motor Report

Dr. Gerhard Wagner, Group Executive ZF car driveline division ZF, when asked if the ZF 6-speed automatic is outdated with the introduction of the ZF 8-speed:
"Certainly not. The 6-speed automatic transmission will continue to provide the benchmark with the reaction and shifting times of a dual clutch transmission. We also lead the competition when it comes to shifting comfort and consumption. Therefore, the 6-speed will surely remain in our program until 2015".
-ZF Friedrichshafen AG

As a matter of fact, a Chinese ZF affilitate is still producing the 6HP under license... it's still that good.

RBT-Tuning is not joking when he says that the 6HP is an immensely competent transmission... even BY TODAY's STANDARDS.

So, if the person complaining about shift speed is not experiencing shifts that are at least as fast as the 8HP... something IS WRONG (likely not having flashed the appropriate map... or a potential function of the ECU tune).

But, to ever say that it's because the 8HP is so much more recent/advanced is false. I have written many pieces on this... quoting from ZF itself... there is NO DIFFERENCE in SHIFT SPEED POTENTIAL between the 6HP (Gen-2) and 8HP transmissions. Absolutely ZERO. As a matter of fact, if anything, it's the opposite. ZF quotes FASTER shift times with the 6HP (Gen-2) transmission than with its 8HP transmissions. This is likely because the 8HP had to fit within the same space as the 6HP (for each of the torque capacities, per design requirements)... which likely meant the 8HP could not dissipate as much heat. This is why you'll notice almost NONE of the 8HP transmissions accomplish anywhere near full in-load shifts from the factory (instead resorting to massive torque reductions during shifts... with farts/burps/fuel cuts/timing retarding)... while the 6HP can handle near-full in-load shifts more readily.

Enjoy one of the greatest transmissions ever produced... and the fact we can now tune it to its potential with xHP!

I dont see Nothing wroonggg.... With a Lil Bump and Grind, I dont see nothing wrong... :biglol: