Future Classics

raf_paul

New member
Howsit Guys,

Thought it would be a interesting discussion to see what you all consider the criteria for a BMW to be considered a classic for the future. Not every M deserves the Hall of fame, does it even need to be a M?? is it performance, styling, sound & handling or one unique feature that pioneers a new idea.

Les go.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
The only M's that probably don't deserve hall of fame mentions are 1st gen X6M and the XM IMHO. There has seldom been a bad M car... controversial yes. Flawed yes, but not bad. Even our 'hate' towards the modern designs or SUV Ms doesn't take away from them being immensely capable and fun things.

In terms of what makes for a classic, it's the same as any other car brand: there is the cultural element, 'historical' significance of being the very first, very best or very last of its kind... anything linked in some way to motorsport... and of course just plain desirability. Non-M things like the 130i or X5 4.8is which existed in the absence of an M or M lite model... last of the 6 pot hatches (M140s), roadsters (notorious for being hated in their day and coming to be greatly loved or admired later on) and x30s will achieve this. (somewhat related I know guys who couldn't give away their Z4 M Roadsters for instance).

Speaking of which, the oddballs like the Z4 M Coupe, Z3 M Coupe and various compacts/limited run tourings over the years have all gotten to 'classic' status in some way or form (or at least to a niche within the community).

Others can add or add contradictary views
 

msm

Well-known member
Sometimes, it's not just the M badge, but something that's just a bit more special.

Beyond what was covered by Llew, there's also

- E36 Individuals - specifically 328i Individuals in a unique colour
- E46 330i Sport/Individuals
- E39 540i Sport/Individuals in manual
- I think the jury is still out on whether the M240i and M340i will become future classics - time will tell...

Obviously BMW played a lot with the marketing of M sport packages & Individuals from a naming convention.

Personally, I don't see many of the current M badged SUV's becoming future classics.
 

TBP88

Well-known member
I don't think much of the turbo gen stuff will ever attain "classic" status, maybe the 1M aside (it's probably already there?)

Non M, "classics" maybe some manual V8 gen1 X5s? But even then we're stretching, they're rare, but I doubt the market for them will ever be huge.

Realistically you know the answers here, manual M3 E36/46/92, coupe, non-sunroof cars are going to be desirable forever, those in unique colours doubly/triply so. The M5s that were available in manual also likely to be worth good money going forward, again, particularly in rarer colours/interior spec.
Of the current crop I can imagine the current M8 in rare spec perhaps could be something special in a few decades.

A lot of the stuff mentioned above is *already* collectible/classic. Any purple E36 is worth $ for instance...
 

Sibonelo

Active member
I think new cars will struggle to be " classics", maybe its because I grew up in a different generation so my classics are older cars mostly but maybe new cars are built different. for instance the F90 M5, brilliant cars and all rounder but will it ever be a classic I am not sure. I guess once a car is built to be all things to all man it looses that " special" feel. I can't explain it. time will tell I guess, but I reckon the M140 is a modern classic because of what it is. its a flawed car but absolutely brilliant. The 240 and 340's are awesome cars but that 140 just stands apart in that platform. I also things accessibility makes a massive impact, back in the day most people knew some uncle or neighbour that had a cool BMW. These days these cars are very expense and don't have the reach old BMW's did. even the non m cars...
 

Bernard///M3

BMW Car Club Member
All M Cars are future Classics 😜😂

Ok for me the E30 325is was the car to have when I was in Primary school all the cool guys drove them.
The E36 M3 was my dream car when I was in high school and then the E46 M3 when I was in varsity. Had the launch pic in my Varisty folder. It was my goal to one day buy one and was my inspiration to study hard!

So my point is some cars we buy to live our childhood dreams and are classics in our minds and if it makes u happy go for it.

In my opinion the X Models aren’t particularly “classics” because they SUVs but that’s me.

I think all the older NA M cars are now classics, but since the Turbo era the limited number models will become the future classics simply because of their limited numbers. So cars like
1M
M2cs
M3cs
M4cs /GTS / DTM/ CSL
M5cs

I suppose let’s see what happens in the next 10 to 15 years
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
By the look of the recent WBC auction, a E46 330i Individual 6 speed is already a classic 🤷‍♂️

My usual reminder that the E46 330i in October 2000 cost the equivalent of R922896 (and eighty cents) :ROFLMAO: inflation adjusted... so while it is a classic, it is not an investment until it has at least recovered the approx 80% of the value it has lost since new, and it is worth more than R923K :ROFLMAO:
 

TBP88

Well-known member
My usual reminder that the E46 330i in October 2000 cost the equivalent of R922896 (and eighty cents) :ROFLMAO: inflation adjusted... so while it is a classic, it is not an investment until it has at least recovered the approx 80% of the value it has lost since new, and it is worth more than R923K :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, same logic applies to basically everything "OMG such a ripoff" then just adjust for inflation (let alone adjust for market related returns) and it's actually like 50% down.
 

sonic6

Member
The 325iS, E30/E36/E46/E92 M3, E28/E34/E39/E60 M5 have all achieved cult status and have attained immortality to all of us car nerds worldwide.

The reason for this is because they are all naturally aspirated with a manual gearbox, bar the E60. The combination of these 2 factors is already seen as exotic and will probably remain so into the next century, regardless of the brand.

This is what makes a future classic in my opinion, something that was once seen as normal in the era of its release, but today is something that cannot be easily found or experienced.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
Yeah, same logic applies to basically everything "OMG such a ripoff" then just adjust for inflation (let alone adjust for market related returns) and it's actually like 50% down.

Everyone talks about the 'miracle' of compound interest but is oblivious to the curse of inflation :ROFLMAO: - also why people who think their 10 bar 'retirement savings' are going to be sufficient in x years time when its going to basically be worth nothing...

There is also a lot of denial especially in the past few years in terms of willingly (actually, gratefully) taking paycut after paycut (which also compounds) or picking up much more work during down-sizing processes. 'Inflationary increases' and the expectation that people are 'grateful' to have a job or fear of being targeted if they speak out are real things... and things nobody is going to admit to (or can't bring themselves to admit even to themselves).

When ANY business talks about inflation, they speak about it as though they are not part of the pool driving it... and even extremely large companies that are essentially 'the entire market' behave as though they are small and poor or exclude themselves. BMW/Merc et all price accordingly and take increases every quarter if not every month... However when it comes to compensation the same does not apply: Staff (again at every company) must be happy with sub-inflation increases or with inflation numbers linked to this imaginary basket that applies to nobody.

Who is buying all this overpriced shit... cos obviously the world is still full of Porsches and Ms and even Jolions et al.... People who have businesses and can dynamically pay themselves more to counteract this and those who are at the tops of their fields able to get promotions and secure double digit annual increases (or 'inflationary' plus discretionary increases) and bonuses.

But if you tell someone they are taking paycuts year on year they will come with their simpleton logic (or ego/self esteem protection mechanism) of "but its more than I made last year so you're wrong and I am right" while simultaneously complaining that they can't afford anything anything beyond basics... cos that is the 'greedy company's' or the 'government's' or 'trump's' fault... and they aren't entirely wrong... but definitely missing a big part of the equation. It is most visible to me reading about US consumer responses... they have been fed the horseshit about the gig-economy and work 'trends' for years as though taking material pay and stability cuts is going to be good for them and the latest trend... now reality is setting in...

TL; DR - people don't want to hear they are becoming materially poorer at a more rapid rate than ever before, either willingly or because of factors totally beyond their control.
 

alwynpv

Member
Fishing for ideas on value here.

Vehicle: 1998 E36 328i Manual, 215 000km
Back Story: My wife's Grandfather bought the vehicle NEW in 1998. He passed away circa 2002. Since then his wife drove the vehicle. She is 87yo and the time has come to consider taking her keys away.

I am torn. I want to keep the vehicle in the family, but if we can get decent money for the vehicle I would rather have it go to a fanatic and Grandma gets a bit of a financial boost.

I have an idea of what value I would match myself and buy it from Grandma, but I don't want to influence opinions on this forum.

Thus the questions:
-Does this have the potential to peek the interest of collectors?
-Is there a specific characteristic that I can check that would make this specific vehicle "special"?
-Assuming all checks out and full Service History is shown in the booklet, what are the "Low", "Expected", and "High" values for this vehicle?

Values shared will not be seen as Offers, don't stress.
(If you prefer to not offend potential buyers on an open forum, you are welcome to send me an estimate privately)
 

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alwynpv

Member
Fishing for ideas on value here.

Vehicle: 1998 E36 328i Manual, 215 000km
Back Story: My wife's Grandfather bought the vehicle NEW in 1998. He passed away circa 2002. Since then his wife drove the vehicle. She is 87yo and the time has come to consider taking her keys away.

I am torn. I want to keep the vehicle in the family, but if we can get decent money for the vehicle I would rather have it go to a fanatic and Grandma gets a bit of a financial boost.

I have an idea of what value I would match myself and buy it from Grandma, but I don't want to influence opinions on this forum.

Thus the questions:
-Does this have the potential to peek the interest of collectors?
-Is there a specific characteristic that I can check that would make this specific vehicle "special"?
-Assuming all checks out and full Service History is shown in the booklet, what are the "Low", "Expected", and "High" values for this vehicle?

Values shared will not be seen as Offers, don't stress.
(If you prefer to not offend potential buyers on an open forum, you are welcome to send me an estimate privately)
OK, let me put my theory out and let's see if people agree.

The expected Low, Mid, High for this kind of vehicle might range somewhere in these values:
(Very dependent on condition and if it has unique/rare characteristics)

Low: R75k
Mid: R100k - R150k
High: R250k - R300k (Assuming perfectly mint with zero issues, collectors item)
 

Riaad

Events Organiser
OK, let me put my theory out and let's see if people agree.

The expected Low, Mid, High for this kind of vehicle might range somewhere in these values:
(Very dependent on condition and if it has unique/rare characteristics)

Low: R75k
Mid: R100k - R150k
High: R250k - R300k (Assuming perfectly mint with zero issues, collectors item)
I'll start.

The "high" is way out, might only be applicable to an absolute minter, 328i mtech manual with super low miles (like <70k kms).

Low: I'd say R50k (old cars, many contributing factors, maintenance history etc)

Mid: 75k - 125k seems reasonable to me, once again, old cars, many contributing factors. however I see a mtech 328i in manual easily selling within this price point.

Enthusiast Spec: +-150k ...lets add this category, for the none stock models

best way to test is to give it away to WBC and watch the auction 😅
 

alwynpv

Member
I'll start.

The "high" is way out, might only be applicable to an absolute minter, 328i mtech manual with super low miles (like <70k kms).

Low: I'd say R50k (old cars, many contributing factors, maintenance history etc)

Mid: 75k - 125k seems reasonable to me, once again, old cars, many contributing factors. however I see a mtech 328i in manual easily selling within this price point.

Enthusiast Spec: +-150k ...lets add this category, for the none stock models

best way to test is to give it away to WBC and watch the auction 😅
Thank you for the honest reply.

With these values my choice becomes much easier and I can possibly convince the family to keep the vehicle in the family.
 

YozTruly

Well-known member
Thank you for the honest reply.

With these values my choice becomes much easier and I can possibly convince the family to keep the vehicle in the family.
The car looks to be in great condition. You can test the market with your preferred asking price and take it from there.

It may not be a collector’s dream but it could be an average Joe’s dream car and Joe may cough up your asking price or close enough.
 
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