-
Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Alfa 4C Coupe
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
Bmw.wp
Active member
TurboLlew said:Thank you all for the messages and wishes.
Few more pics - took it out to an industry function this evening and it attracted an insane amount of attention. The Mrs actually loved the noise and having this kind of car again... and it was comfortable enough for her. The attention though? Not so much! LMFAO.
I Think its time we need a Love button next to the Like button lol. :blowheart:
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
SO whilst I haven't driven much given the weather, I did find myself enjoying some of the quirks of each mode....
Dynamic adds boost and oil temperature to the display
Race then replaces these with a G-meter and turns off traction control
The plethora of noises this car makes is just so raw and so much fun... especially in Dynamic and Race. The M5 is a great white shark in a business suit... this is a piranha in a thong on LSD LMFAO. Whilst it quietens down A LOT in 'natural' mode (you can have a conversation on the phone easily), it isn't ever going to be a quiet thing...
Many of you have sent questions, comments, articles, links to threads etc over the past week. I won't update this thread like I do my M5 one, but I will give you updates from time to time.
@kickasskeegan sent me a post and one of the interesting things I definitely agreed with was that you need to budget for time at your destination for people who want to talk about it... If I think about the short time I've had it, I've already chatted to people for probably 1.5 hours... random people in parking spaces, at an event I was at... shopping centers... taking pics on the road... not sure I will be very enthusiastic about this all the time (given we all have places to get to a lot of the time) but I've done my best to be nice to those showing interest (Alfa has a bad enough name already LOL)
Various people have also shared the 10000 and 11000rpm NA V8s in the 4C race cars LOL (maybe one day)
I think a lot of the comments you see on youtube and global forums don't really apply to the car I've got given that a) I have paid a HECK of a lot less than a Cayman S (which is what this is up against price wise in other markets) and why people agonize over the choice, b) my expectations are very different to someone looking for a daily driven or all-round 'best' car (given this is really a 3rd/4th car for me that can be driven a few days a week) and c) the car reviewer or youtuber definition of 'hardcore' is very different to mine.
Being a much newer car it also doesn't suffer from some of the issues seen on earlier 4Cs (dash quality and some transmission issues as well as the 'tramlining' caused by factory alignment being setup for track use).
I feel like if this car had a BMW badge they could sell it for double the price and we would all be lining up to buy it. It is the inner BMW fanboy in me that wonders what a B48 (let alone B58) mid-engine, super light RWD small car using the 4C format/concept would be like. Given the move to electric we can only dream I guess... I think short of Lotus refreshing its lineup, the days of cars like this has come to an end.
Dynamic adds boost and oil temperature to the display
Race then replaces these with a G-meter and turns off traction control
The plethora of noises this car makes is just so raw and so much fun... especially in Dynamic and Race. The M5 is a great white shark in a business suit... this is a piranha in a thong on LSD LMFAO. Whilst it quietens down A LOT in 'natural' mode (you can have a conversation on the phone easily), it isn't ever going to be a quiet thing...
Many of you have sent questions, comments, articles, links to threads etc over the past week. I won't update this thread like I do my M5 one, but I will give you updates from time to time.
@kickasskeegan sent me a post and one of the interesting things I definitely agreed with was that you need to budget for time at your destination for people who want to talk about it... If I think about the short time I've had it, I've already chatted to people for probably 1.5 hours... random people in parking spaces, at an event I was at... shopping centers... taking pics on the road... not sure I will be very enthusiastic about this all the time (given we all have places to get to a lot of the time) but I've done my best to be nice to those showing interest (Alfa has a bad enough name already LOL)
Various people have also shared the 10000 and 11000rpm NA V8s in the 4C race cars LOL (maybe one day)
I think a lot of the comments you see on youtube and global forums don't really apply to the car I've got given that a) I have paid a HECK of a lot less than a Cayman S (which is what this is up against price wise in other markets) and why people agonize over the choice, b) my expectations are very different to someone looking for a daily driven or all-round 'best' car (given this is really a 3rd/4th car for me that can be driven a few days a week) and c) the car reviewer or youtuber definition of 'hardcore' is very different to mine.
Being a much newer car it also doesn't suffer from some of the issues seen on earlier 4Cs (dash quality and some transmission issues as well as the 'tramlining' caused by factory alignment being setup for track use).
I feel like if this car had a BMW badge they could sell it for double the price and we would all be lining up to buy it. It is the inner BMW fanboy in me that wonders what a B48 (let alone B58) mid-engine, super light RWD small car using the 4C format/concept would be like. Given the move to electric we can only dream I guess... I think short of Lotus refreshing its lineup, the days of cars like this has come to an end.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
SO whilst I haven't driven much given the weather, I did find myself enjoying some of the quirks of each mode....
Dynamic adds boost and oil temperature to the display
Race then replaces these with a G-meter and turns off traction control
The plethora of noises this car makes is just so raw and so much fun... especially in Dynamic and Race. The M5 is a great white shark in a business suit... this is a piranha in a thong on LSD LMFAO. Whilst it quietens down A LOT in 'natural' mode (you can have a conversation on the phone easily), it isn't ever going to be a quiet thing...
Many of you have sent questions, comments, articles, links to threads etc over the past week. I won't update this thread like I do my M5 one, but I will give you updates from time to time.
@kickasskeegan sent me a post and one of the interesting things I definitely agreed with was that you need to budget for time at your destination for people who want to talk about it... If I think about the short time I've had it, I've already chatted to people for probably 1.5 hours... random people in parking spaces, at an event I was at... shopping centers... taking pics on the road... not sure I will be very enthusiastic about this all the time (given we all have places to get to a lot of the time) but I've done my best to be nice to those showing interest (Alfa has a bad enough name already LOL)
Various people have also shared the 10000 and 11000rpm NA V8s in the 4C race cars LOL (maybe one day)
I think a lot of the comments you see on youtube and global forums don't really apply to the car I've got given that a) I have paid a HECK of a lot less than a Cayman S (which is what this is up against price wise in other markets) and why people agonize over the choice, b) my expectations are very different to someone looking for a daily driven or all-round 'best' car (given this is really a 3rd/4th car for me that can be driven a few days a week) and c) the car reviewer or youtuber definition of 'hardcore' is very different to mine.
Being a much newer car it also doesn't suffer from some of the issues seen on earlier 4Cs (dash quality and some transmission issues as well as the 'tramlining' caused by factory alignment being setup for track use).
I feel like if this car had a BMW badge they could sell it for double the price and we would all be lining up to buy it. It is the inner BMW fanboy in me that wonders what a B48 (let alone B58) mid-engine, super light RWD small car using the 4C format/concept would be like. Given the move to electric we can only dream I guess... I think short of Lotus refreshing its lineup, the days of cars like this has come to an end.
Dynamic adds boost and oil temperature to the display
Race then replaces these with a G-meter and turns off traction control
The plethora of noises this car makes is just so raw and so much fun... especially in Dynamic and Race. The M5 is a great white shark in a business suit... this is a piranha in a thong on LSD LMFAO. Whilst it quietens down A LOT in 'natural' mode (you can have a conversation on the phone easily), it isn't ever going to be a quiet thing...
Many of you have sent questions, comments, articles, links to threads etc over the past week. I won't update this thread like I do my M5 one, but I will give you updates from time to time.
@kickasskeegan sent me a post and one of the interesting things I definitely agreed with was that you need to budget for time at your destination for people who want to talk about it... If I think about the short time I've had it, I've already chatted to people for probably 1.5 hours... random people in parking spaces, at an event I was at... shopping centers... taking pics on the road... not sure I will be very enthusiastic about this all the time (given we all have places to get to a lot of the time) but I've done my best to be nice to those showing interest (Alfa has a bad enough name already LOL)
Various people have also shared the 10000 and 11000rpm NA V8s in the 4C race cars LOL (maybe one day)
I think a lot of the comments you see on youtube and global forums don't really apply to the car I've got given that a) I have paid a HECK of a lot less than a Cayman S (which is what this is up against price wise in other markets) and why people agonize over the choice, b) my expectations are very different to someone looking for a daily driven or all-round 'best' car (given this is really a 3rd/4th car for me that can be driven a few days a week) and c) the car reviewer or youtuber definition of 'hardcore' is very different to mine.
Being a much newer car it also doesn't suffer from some of the issues seen on earlier 4Cs (dash quality and some transmission issues as well as the 'tramlining' caused by factory alignment being setup for track use).
I feel like if this car had a BMW badge they could sell it for double the price and we would all be lining up to buy it. It is the inner BMW fanboy in me that wonders what a B48 (let alone B58) mid-engine, super light RWD small car using the 4C format/concept would be like. Given the move to electric we can only dream I guess... I think short of Lotus refreshing its lineup, the days of cars like this has come to an end.
UpNcOmiNg!
Events Organiser
I spotted a black 4C 2 days ago here in CPT, and he was driving rather slowly but man that car has a presence and that exhaust does that little 4 Cylinder justice definitely!
Love this car! Definitely do want to drive one of these!
Love this car! Definitely do want to drive one of these!
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
A long time coming, I did a little bit of prep just to see what the car is really capable of in stock form in its natural habitat.
Apart from Motul RBF660 done at Alfa together with balancing and alignment, it was off to Zwartkops for a small track event. I got in about 30 odd laps and tried to learn as much as I could about this car that, apart from being light, is very different to anything else that I had used before in terms of layout or feel. You read a lot of opinions from people who have varying expectations and degrees of skill themselves. Glad I got to do it before doing anything else. What is interesting is that I didn't experience any of the issues that most complain about in youtube reviews. You look at this little thing with 205 section front tyres and 235 rears with 240hp and don't think much of it until you are sharing space with its much more expensive and more powerful cousins and it is not embarrassing you LOL. The "specialness" you feel on normal roads is only amplified on track. If anything, you might be surprised at how long it takes for much more serious stuff to catch up let alone pass.
The McLarens though - wow! You might spot an absolutely mental E46 in the pics below on full slicks. Really epic cars in attendance! I don't think I've been to a track event where front-engined cars were in the vast minority LOL
Even with this most minimal of prep and on street tyres, it was possible to brake incredibly (almost absurdly) late and consistently, placing the car was quite easy. I struggled with front end grip at the start of the morning but with improved track temp and after a few laps warming up the tyres at the start of each stint this improved quite a bit. I am going to be replacing the tyres before the next outing on track (whenever that may be - at this rate next year LOL).
If you think it doesn't take skill to drive a paddle shift box on track, you've got another thing coming. You still can find yourself in the wrong gear, shifting too late and hitting the limiter and you have to develop a way of counting up and down mentally into each corner. I actually really loved driving it once I got into it and I don't think I would have enjoyed a manual more personally.
We got discounted rates on track cover which I did end up taking (hence I am posting at all LOL - I normally avoid even posting race tales). This required inspection from Pablo Clark (who were great to chat to in general). Maybe admins and mods will get us added to the list of clubs they recognise (BMW CCG is on the list). The day itself was very well run.
There wasn't timing at the event... I did an extract from the go-pro footage where I lost a few seconds passing a car and that looked good. Will host and post when I am back home. There was not much more I could get out of the fairly old road-spec P Zeros (not in miles, but in years). The totally unassisted steering also takes some getting used to. On many (especially newer) cars there is precious little feedback through the steering until you are getting close to the limit and you develop an instinct around this. You have to get used to the feedback and reading the progression differently.
Apart from the fun and feel of it, I feel like you might go faster in many things (certainly many of the track focused hatches, Subarus etc with semi-slicks and prepped well), but the 4C is more of a set of training wheels getting you ready for McLarens or Ferraris and learning the characteristics of a light, mid-engined RWD car. I feel like if you hopped from a Civic type R (or even something like my old S2000 or MX-5) into one of those, you would have to adapt a lot more than someone driving a 4C, if that makes sense. Still a lot to learn for me though!
It's days like this that make these irrational cars make total sense. I can also completely believe the giant-killing claims of the guys with 60-80hp more. You can't ask much more from a car than to take you to something like this, put a massive smile on your face and then take you home. No overheating, errors, brake issues etc at all. It was also very kind to the tyres, pads and rotors (low weight helps)
Some pics from the event
Apart from Motul RBF660 done at Alfa together with balancing and alignment, it was off to Zwartkops for a small track event. I got in about 30 odd laps and tried to learn as much as I could about this car that, apart from being light, is very different to anything else that I had used before in terms of layout or feel. You read a lot of opinions from people who have varying expectations and degrees of skill themselves. Glad I got to do it before doing anything else. What is interesting is that I didn't experience any of the issues that most complain about in youtube reviews. You look at this little thing with 205 section front tyres and 235 rears with 240hp and don't think much of it until you are sharing space with its much more expensive and more powerful cousins and it is not embarrassing you LOL. The "specialness" you feel on normal roads is only amplified on track. If anything, you might be surprised at how long it takes for much more serious stuff to catch up let alone pass.
The McLarens though - wow! You might spot an absolutely mental E46 in the pics below on full slicks. Really epic cars in attendance! I don't think I've been to a track event where front-engined cars were in the vast minority LOL
Even with this most minimal of prep and on street tyres, it was possible to brake incredibly (almost absurdly) late and consistently, placing the car was quite easy. I struggled with front end grip at the start of the morning but with improved track temp and after a few laps warming up the tyres at the start of each stint this improved quite a bit. I am going to be replacing the tyres before the next outing on track (whenever that may be - at this rate next year LOL).
If you think it doesn't take skill to drive a paddle shift box on track, you've got another thing coming. You still can find yourself in the wrong gear, shifting too late and hitting the limiter and you have to develop a way of counting up and down mentally into each corner. I actually really loved driving it once I got into it and I don't think I would have enjoyed a manual more personally.
We got discounted rates on track cover which I did end up taking (hence I am posting at all LOL - I normally avoid even posting race tales). This required inspection from Pablo Clark (who were great to chat to in general). Maybe admins and mods will get us added to the list of clubs they recognise (BMW CCG is on the list). The day itself was very well run.
There wasn't timing at the event... I did an extract from the go-pro footage where I lost a few seconds passing a car and that looked good. Will host and post when I am back home. There was not much more I could get out of the fairly old road-spec P Zeros (not in miles, but in years). The totally unassisted steering also takes some getting used to. On many (especially newer) cars there is precious little feedback through the steering until you are getting close to the limit and you develop an instinct around this. You have to get used to the feedback and reading the progression differently.
Apart from the fun and feel of it, I feel like you might go faster in many things (certainly many of the track focused hatches, Subarus etc with semi-slicks and prepped well), but the 4C is more of a set of training wheels getting you ready for McLarens or Ferraris and learning the characteristics of a light, mid-engined RWD car. I feel like if you hopped from a Civic type R (or even something like my old S2000 or MX-5) into one of those, you would have to adapt a lot more than someone driving a 4C, if that makes sense. Still a lot to learn for me though!
It's days like this that make these irrational cars make total sense. I can also completely believe the giant-killing claims of the guys with 60-80hp more. You can't ask much more from a car than to take you to something like this, put a massive smile on your face and then take you home. No overheating, errors, brake issues etc at all. It was also very kind to the tyres, pads and rotors (low weight helps)
Some pics from the event
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Sure. Pushing the laptimes wasn't my objective on this one. The estimate time is just what I pulled out of a cleanish looking lap... still lost time in it being let through. Will use race chrono next time and hopefully get some clean runs... when im setting a time baseline... or go during the week when its quiet. Tyres will help as will more time under my belt with a car like this... i will probably leave the rear settings as is and run alot more front camber. Much faster times lurking in it (probably also in the video of this one... i left for holiday shortly after so haven't had a chance to get back into it).
My mate who was my copilot for the day has a TT RS and wants one now LOL.
My mate who was my copilot for the day has a TT RS and wants one now LOL.
AshG108
///Member
Nicely done Llew...I must say I live the look of this car...unique...wide and menacing! Its like the Denis the Menace on roids ha ha!
I see a black 4C in my area very often and i saw it the day it was bought at the testing station for its numberplate change over check, up close i was in awe with the red leather and black outers but the design blew me away. The white really does give a lot more appreciation of the curves to the eye though, the black is aggressive but the white shows the real beauty off.
Great buy dude! Would have loved to see it on track...must be a joy to drive!
I see a black 4C in my area very often and i saw it the day it was bought at the testing station for its numberplate change over check, up close i was in awe with the red leather and black outers but the design blew me away. The white really does give a lot more appreciation of the curves to the eye though, the black is aggressive but the white shows the real beauty off.
Great buy dude! Would have loved to see it on track...must be a joy to drive!
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I haven't had a chance to update in a while so brace for a little non-BMW content.
I did a couple more tracks with the 4C. It ran similar times to a Shelby super snake and Lotus Exige supercharged... still obviously far from McLarens which are really the grown up versions of what the 4C is and the serious Porsches. At another, I decided to attend last minute - no prep and was taking my son around for the first time. He had a ton of fun. The car is a lot of fun to drive, but now I am being tossed around a bit too much as my confidence has grown and with the stickier tyres inducing more lateral forces LOL - I am looking at doing the harness bar (there are points in the carbon tub to mount a bar and 6 point harness).
What is probably most impressive about this car is not the single lap time that is possible... it's that you can build consistency lap after lap and it does so without any fuss. This is different to most of the other cars that can put together a great lap or two but end up with a variety of problems in doing so (overheating brakes, misfires, oil management issues, errors, cooling issues etc etc). It really does feel like nothing else: as I said before, you are not dragging it kicking and screaming though a lap - it is working with you throughout.
This brings me to the PSC2 - they have performed extremely well on the road and so far at the track as well. The shortcomings vs. a traditional semi-slick become evident mostly (I think anyway) because of the ability of the 4C to go on for longer than most other cars. The idea with the PSC2 is that you run them as your only tyre for street and track. They are road tyres at home on a track as opposed to the R888R which is a track tyre that could do duty on the road. I also find that between the mid-engine layout distributing the weight as it does, weight of the car etc, it is very sensitive to pressures. Ultimately for my use case, the PSC2 is the best I think - no noisier than a road tyre, gets up to temperature with a wide operating window on track. If there is more track duty in the future, then I will explore other options. They are head and shoulders above the P Zeros that the car originally had... several seconds on a 2km track and still probably plenty more to go. I do think it is a lot of things working together though (experience with the car, age of the P Zeros, tyre pressures etc). I have a lot of confidence with these.
It seems 4C prices are on the rise globally and guys are pushing the boundaries in terms of what it is being advertised at - there is one listed for 1.3M which is crazy, but a couple have changed hands at R1M already. The time might come to sell sooner than I think. I was worried about Alfa depreciation - never expected to have one appreciating in value!! LOL
Mod wise, there isn't much that I need to change just yet. I still have more to improve myself before I go on a big shopping spree. I did get a Novitec downpipe which I haven't yet fitted. I am also going to go with a set of Vari rotors which are very cost effective vs. buying from Alfa. To be honest, I had a few setbacks over the year and had hoped for a few things to happen that didn't quite pan out which impacted what I did with both the M5 and 4C.
Reliability has been good - I have had no issues so far with the car. Alfa HQ can be a little frustrating to deal with when you're looking for things but the dealership helps a lot and there is a good team at the Bryanston dealership. An example is the gaskets for my upcoming downpipe installation: The one is super cheap and available in singles, but the thin one that goes between the turbo and downpipe can only be bought in quantities of 10.... V Band clamp only available in packs of 5.
More updates will follow at some point (maybe in another 8 months LOL).
I did a couple more tracks with the 4C. It ran similar times to a Shelby super snake and Lotus Exige supercharged... still obviously far from McLarens which are really the grown up versions of what the 4C is and the serious Porsches. At another, I decided to attend last minute - no prep and was taking my son around for the first time. He had a ton of fun. The car is a lot of fun to drive, but now I am being tossed around a bit too much as my confidence has grown and with the stickier tyres inducing more lateral forces LOL - I am looking at doing the harness bar (there are points in the carbon tub to mount a bar and 6 point harness).
What is probably most impressive about this car is not the single lap time that is possible... it's that you can build consistency lap after lap and it does so without any fuss. This is different to most of the other cars that can put together a great lap or two but end up with a variety of problems in doing so (overheating brakes, misfires, oil management issues, errors, cooling issues etc etc). It really does feel like nothing else: as I said before, you are not dragging it kicking and screaming though a lap - it is working with you throughout.
This brings me to the PSC2 - they have performed extremely well on the road and so far at the track as well. The shortcomings vs. a traditional semi-slick become evident mostly (I think anyway) because of the ability of the 4C to go on for longer than most other cars. The idea with the PSC2 is that you run them as your only tyre for street and track. They are road tyres at home on a track as opposed to the R888R which is a track tyre that could do duty on the road. I also find that between the mid-engine layout distributing the weight as it does, weight of the car etc, it is very sensitive to pressures. Ultimately for my use case, the PSC2 is the best I think - no noisier than a road tyre, gets up to temperature with a wide operating window on track. If there is more track duty in the future, then I will explore other options. They are head and shoulders above the P Zeros that the car originally had... several seconds on a 2km track and still probably plenty more to go. I do think it is a lot of things working together though (experience with the car, age of the P Zeros, tyre pressures etc). I have a lot of confidence with these.
It seems 4C prices are on the rise globally and guys are pushing the boundaries in terms of what it is being advertised at - there is one listed for 1.3M which is crazy, but a couple have changed hands at R1M already. The time might come to sell sooner than I think. I was worried about Alfa depreciation - never expected to have one appreciating in value!! LOL
Mod wise, there isn't much that I need to change just yet. I still have more to improve myself before I go on a big shopping spree. I did get a Novitec downpipe which I haven't yet fitted. I am also going to go with a set of Vari rotors which are very cost effective vs. buying from Alfa. To be honest, I had a few setbacks over the year and had hoped for a few things to happen that didn't quite pan out which impacted what I did with both the M5 and 4C.
Reliability has been good - I have had no issues so far with the car. Alfa HQ can be a little frustrating to deal with when you're looking for things but the dealership helps a lot and there is a good team at the Bryanston dealership. An example is the gaskets for my upcoming downpipe installation: The one is super cheap and available in singles, but the thin one that goes between the turbo and downpipe can only be bought in quantities of 10.... V Band clamp only available in packs of 5.
More updates will follow at some point (maybe in another 8 months LOL).
///M Individual
Well-known member
Awesome LLew! Saw a pic of the your car at the track on one of the FB pages.
Given how much Jeremy Clarkson loves the 4C and considering he gets to drive anything and everything, it must be really really special which explains the increase in prices which I'm sure will continue to rise.
Given how much Jeremy Clarkson loves the 4C and considering he gets to drive anything and everything, it must be really really special which explains the increase in prices which I'm sure will continue to rise.
GravityLee
Well-known member
Immensely cool car.
