discussion Is it worth buying a diesel still?

[TurboLlew]

My head hurts from reading this thread.

The difference in purchase price brand new is 5% (as of now). From memory this has always been the case. If you care about the cost of fuel or you do huge mileages the diesel is the obvious choice. It is easy to make the case for fuel savings vs higher purchase price when the differential is 5% (less so now that prices are all close to 1M but it's also still not a 100K+ difference).

When I look at the used differentials on these (55%+ is INSANE), people are being gouged BADLY (even worse than you may think) because of diesel tax. The mileage to realise the offset in savings for this differential is HUGE. That being said, it might still make sense (somehow) for some people that have daily 100km commutes etc.

Whatever the case, dealers are really taking the piss. The way I see it, used dealers basically want all the 'value seekers' to pay them for the fuel savings upfront while the buyers are happy to be taking pics of 4L/100km on their iDrives... and what is making my head hurt is that this is actually working for the dealers. The reason it's working is simply because the argument that applies when buying new is just parroted without people doing the math to see if the same applies on the used side. Penny wise and pound foolish.

The B48 addresses all the reliability arguments from prior generations on the petrol side of things. 20 and 30d remain legendary motors. I have to agree with @PsyCLown on the value question on the used market

 

[TurboLlew]

The price difference you're referring to is the absolute worst case scenario. Check Autotrader; 2018 320i's with around 90k km odo still reaches well over R350K. I wouldn't let one comparison deter me from considering a 320d.

I can sense that you envisage a performance orientated car- 1/4mile, 0-100 times. How long will a 320i live up to your standard, moreover a 320d for that matter?

Why not wait a litter longer and add 2 more cylinders into the equation, be it diesel or petrol...

The first 320d shows up at R340K... after nearly a dozen 320is in the same age and mileage range that start at R250K... and nothing to write home about spec wise. (Not that I would buy from any of the dealers or look at any of those cars on the first page of results )

 

[tamgoem]

Still arguing about rep mobiles i see.

 

[VinceM]

Still arguing about rep mobiles i see.

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[PsyCLown]

The price difference you're referring to is the absolute worst case scenario. Check Autotrader; 2018 320i's with around 90k km odo still reaches well over R350K. I wouldn't let one comparison deter me from considering a 320d.

I can sense that you envisage a performance orientated car- 1/4mile, 0-100 times. How long will a 320i live up to your standard, moreover a 320d for that matter?

Why not wait a litter longer and add 2 more cylinders into the equation, be it diesel or petrol...

Comparisons can be a bit of a challenge at times as the cars available on the used market now might not be available next month and prices do fluctuate although I purposefully tried to avoid the car dealers which tend to be dodgy and sell cars which were written off by insurance, bought from SMD, repaired cheaply and are now being sold at what might seem like a bargain price. You even find the exact same vehicle being advertised by multiple of these dodgy dealers.

I imagine that for majority of us on this BMW Fanatics forum, performance of a vehicle is a big concern. Sitting in a heavy piece of metal and putting 70KW to the wheels isn't exactly fun. Been there and done that, my Kia didn't even make 70kw on the fly
So yes, performance is definitely a consideration but I need to be realistic regarding my finances and whilst I might be able to get finance for a far more performance orientated vehicle it currently does not make sense for me to be spending that much money on a car. Especially considering how frequently it will be used and how my need for a car isn't as significant as it might be for others.

I agree that if one wants performance and is looking at BMW's, going for a 6 cylinder is the obvious choice. As mentioned, paying a premium for a 330d and looking at the additional gains in performance vs a modded 320i makes it hard for me to justify and I am not sure the price difference between a modded 320i and a modded 330d would justify the additional 20wkw (and I guess 200nm more torque on the diesel). Looking at dragy videos on YouTube (which I understand is not the best way to compare the performance and experience of vehicles, but it offers an idea) the performance difference between a 320i modded and 330d modded is not significant. Either way it would be a street car end of the day and driving on public roads has limitations. There are some pros for the diesel and there are some pros for the petrol. As for how long the performance of the 320i would keep me satisfied for, I have no clue. A 320i is not a sports car, one needs to enjoy it for what it is which is a premium sedan with a reasonable amount of performance and I feel the value it offers is very appealing. For under R250k you can end up with a 3 series LCI in M-sport trim making 190WKW+, the beautiful ZF8, RWD and I believe the F30 is still very close to 50:50 weight distribution.

If performance is what you're after then something with a B58 becomes more appealing but then again looking at a 40i in the 3 and 4 series - their pricing is quite a bit more than a 320i.
The cheapest 340i on cars.co.za currently is R440k, seems as if one can pick up a decent 320i for around R250k. So an additional R190k (at best, more if you're fussier) - that is a whole other car.
I could get a really nice e46 330ci for less than R190k. I am not looking to spend R440k on a car at the moment, I'd rather put the R190k towards my bond or a 2nd property.
Sure, I could wait a bit longer and put together an additional R200k for a car... but then when I am at the R450k mark for a vehicle why don't I wait a bit longer and I could look at getting into something else, I could then start looking at some older Porsche Boxsters... If I waited a bit longer I could save up even more and get something else and so the circle continues. Regardless of how long I wait, the fact is I would still end up spending more on a vehicle which would depreciate, I would end up paying more interest on my bond as well. Its crazy looking at my home loan debit orders each month, the amount of interest I am paying per month. Put the same amount into vehicle finance repayments and I could be driving a really nice car, even without any deposit!

I think I'd really enjoy owning a 40i, however it is just not where I am at currently and does not align with my goals. I have other things I'd rather spend the extra money on.

Everyone and each situation is different though. I really do like the diesels though and certainly am not ruling them out - if the prices drop at some point, I will certainly consider them again.


You had the recent thread about the itch for something more ever ending and considering upgrading to a 330d, why would someone want to go from a 320d to 330d, main reason would be for the performance... Which then begs the questions, why do you want to go for a 330d instead of a 340i? The 340i offer far more performance, even in stock form.

 

[GravityLee]

Find a E60 530d. After watching Wolfs I really want an E60 🤣

 

[///M_Diesel]

I'm confused is a modded B48 > M57, N57 or B57?

Or is it cheaper to mod a B48 to get to 30d power and save money.

Note there is a difference in F series B48 n G series B48, + the B48 G series 330i has better internals(crazy mods overseas and big money spent) and B48 M135, M135, X35 are even stronger.

Buy what makes you happy....

 

[TurboLlew]

I think you're over thinking this whole thing. I have seen so many people on here fixated on the cost vs the value vs performance vs 'investment potential' trying to mentally justify something rather than just doing it. Houses are expensive. Cars are expensive. Kids are expensive. Significant others are expensive .

In all these cases you must have a deep love and appreciation for what it is beyond it just 'making sense'. In all those cases getting out of those decisions is also painful and expensive (if it is possible at all ) so best to be as happy as possible with your choice.

There is a certain utility value to a car or a house which is where it ends for most people and why they are happy to rent cars and be content with whatever their friends or the internet tells them is the best at that point in time. Two of those examples are inanimate objects to most people, but if you're an enthusiast it also takes on an emotional element to it and your house/car becomes a very personal and important part of your life. If you don't love that expensive thing you are buying, why are you buying it any more than you would marry someone or move in with someone that you didn't love? You can argue that some do it for the status as well (and they get SOs and Kids for the same reasons... but my analogy is wearing thin here already LOL). In I think everyone's cases on here it is out of love and passion.

This is just my own observation and opinion, but guys who identify as car-guys but change cars every 2 years from one mid-tier thing/hot hatch to another without ever buying something very special are often the ones who will talk about how great of an all rounder the car is, how practical it is, what great value it is etc. It's like they bought it because the spreadsheet of their weighted preferences and ratings told them that was the car to buy as opposed to them actually liking it. Exactly the cars that reviewers love, masses love and which do absolutely zero for me (as true of a statement today as it was 20 years ago). I found myself in this boat shopping for SUVs. Guys who buy the special things (be it objectively special, or special to them in some way) tend to keep them over MUCH longer timescales.

We are spoiled a bit in the BMW world because even a 320d or 320i can be in the 'special to somebody' category and have qualities that make them end-game cars for people... and there are many comments about how people can't imagine being without their base model BMWs... Even the owners of extremely difficult-to-own cars put in the money and time to keep them going (V8 M3, V10 M5/6 owners/N54 gang etc). However if you're having to do mental gymnastics to find a reason for or against something, then it's probably a better idea to go explore more things until something really does speak to you... there is no real value argument in the end on this bit. Ultimately, you buy what you like and justify it to nobody but yourself.

 

[sonic6]

Still arguing about rep mobiles i see.

You obviously landed in a G82 M4 CSL straight out of the womb hey.

Some of us start at the bottom and work our way up in life, and some of us would rather place our equity into property or fixed assets while driving an average car so that in the fullness of time, we can leverage our assets and go for that Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo instead of ending up with a 10 year bank financed M/AMG/RS car.

As human beings, we are all striving for a better life so get your head out of your arse and respect the fact that we are all at different points along this journey called life.

This will probably go straight over your head because you first have to be human in order to grasp this concept.

 

[Meep]

Hey all,

So I am sure most of you have noticed how the prices of the diesel BMW's have gone up (or just not dropped as they age), unlike with the 20i models.

This got me thinking, is there any benefit to buying a diesel vs a petrol when looking at something like a 320i, 320d, 330d.
I imagine most purchase a diesel variant over a petrol one due to the fuel economy, although considering the difference in purchase price and taking into consideration the difference in fuel economy does it make sense spending extra to go for a diesel variant over a petrol variant?

I did some quick calculations in Excel earlier today using an average fuel consumption of 8.5L/100km for a 20i vs 7L/100km for a 20d and if one were to drive the vehicle for 100 000KM the petrol variant would cost around R31k more in comparison. For the annual average of 15 000KM it was around R4700 more for the 20i.
Obviously there are various factors to consider when doing such a comparison, such as actual fuel consumption which would vary based on how you drive and the type of driving you do (city, highway, mixed) as well as the cost of petrol & diesel etc.

With that being said, I recall that the B48 can make some really good power on the wheels with a downpipe & tune. I believe power figures similar to a 330d and 0-100 times (which I have seen on YouTube) seem to be similar to that of a modded 330d (based on the video @YasserIsmail did, which was the 330d doing 0-100 in around 5.4s I think).

If going this route, the 20i becomes really appealing when comparing the power it can make compared to a 330d and the purchase price when compared to either a 320d or 330d. The B48 seems pretty reliable from what I have seen as well.

Based on the above, does it still make sense going for a diesel if one wants a daily which makes reasonable power?

One big thing to remember on 20i b48s are their high compression for a turbo engine, 11:1, this can cause cracked pistons and especially in this heat and the fact that we only get up to 95 octane (all EU tuners tune the cars to 98 or 100 to save the engine) will make tuning it to high numbers (180 kw+) even more risky. If tuning it to lets say 160kw you'll be fine but high numbers on 20i's are risky so rather get a 30i and tune that if you're only after power on a budget, they have lower compression and afaik better cooling systems.

 

[Veedub]

No concerns about the environmental impact of diesel vehicles? Especially where people start removing cats, egr's and dpfs? Not forgetting to mention the tuned ones that cover everything behind them in soot.
The sooner they ban diesel engines on passenger vehicles, the better.

 

[Julian_30d]

No concerns about the environmental impact of diesel vehicles? Especially where people start removing cats, egr's and dpfs? Not forgetting to mention the tuned ones that cover everything behind them in soot.
The sooner they ban diesel engines on passenger vehicles, the better.

With diesel or petrol cars, it's all about personal preference. People do remove cats, egrs and dpfs, but this is more for the health and longevity of their vehicle. Does it affect the environment negatively? Yes. It's a catch 22.

Basically, let people enjoy what they like without putting it down and being all negative about it.

P.S I own a tuned 330d and I love it.

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