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VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
25-05-2017, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 12:01 PM by Fuzz.)
Post: #1
VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Not much between Edge 5w30 FST and BMW Twin Power 5w30.

Edge has a healthy addition of Ti though but they seems pretty equal in specs.

Virgin oil analysis in link below.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr.../4313614/1

Identical TBN as well.

Like I said in a previous thread, not much between LL01 approved oils of the same weight except opinions.

Buy which ever LL01 oil is on special CoolShake

Also, seems like BMW Twin Power 5w30 does differ from Shell Ultra 5w30 that you find off the shelf.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr.../4313614/1

FYI, Shell Ultra is labelled as Pennzoil Ultra in the US

Also, to the Liqui Moly fans, look at the VOA's. Seems like LM base oils have quite a lot of impurities and their additive packs are less than adequate in a lot of their products. Still don't know what the hype about these oils are and why they are so expensive.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...ost4089452
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...ost4237181

Btw, looks like you cant go wrong with Shell Ultra 5w40 when it comes to an LL01 oil. Fantastic additive pack and top Group 4 base oil -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...ost4089457
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25-05-2017, 02:50 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 02:57 PM by Fuzz.)
Post: #2
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
oh and to all the opinions about Castrol, here is Edge performing exactly the same as Mobil 1 in a Porsche over the exact same mileage.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/78...-5w40.html

When you look at the scientific facts you realise that opinions about oils are exactly that, just opinions.

Leave the boutique brands priced at a premium because chances are the you are paying more for an oil that performs marginally worse than your less expensive big brands.
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25-05-2017, 03:28 PM
Post: #3
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Thanks for this.

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25-05-2017, 03:35 PM
Post: #4
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Good post! Ty

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25-05-2017, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 03:49 PM by Fuzz.)
Post: #5
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Pleasure guys...

Lubrication is my thing, LOL Rollsmile

Seems like you will be equally well off using either Castrol Edge or Shell Ultra, but after these results I think I will stick to BMW Twin Power 5w30.

I guess its true that the formula is BMW specific and not the same as off the shelf Shell Ultra 5w30 as it has slightly more ZDDP as an anti-wear additive and more Calcium which should keep things clean on the inside. I would assume the same holds true for the 0w40 used for M-Power cars.

Also, the additive pack in Shell Ultra 5w40 is nearly exactly that of BMW Twin Power. So if you want to stick to OEM and possibly save a buck or two, its seems like Ultra 5w40 would be your best bet off the shelf. It just has a heavier CST at 100C which might be a good thing in our hot climate in SA.
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25-05-2017, 03:47 PM
Post: #6
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Thanks for the information, bud! This should be made sticky...

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25-05-2017, 04:18 PM
Post: #7
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Thread stickied.

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My thread - sold

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25-05-2017, 04:24 PM
Post: #8
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Praise

Thanks everyone.

Will search for more analysis on BMW's and add to the post periodically.
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25-05-2017, 05:36 PM
Post: #9
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Thanks for the info. If I can add a request to those in the know, perhaps if you can also share some knowledge on how it matches the local range of products. For example, is the Edge on these tests the same as the ones on the local shelves.

.
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26-05-2017, 10:10 AM
Post: #10
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(25-05-2017 05:36 PM)msm Wrote:  Thanks for the info. If I can add a request to those in the know, perhaps if you can also share some knowledge on how it matches the local range of products. For example, is the Edge on these tests the same as the ones on the local shelves.

Yes it is. Our oils are the same spec as "Euro" oils. When an oil has an approval from a manufacturer it means that it has been put through specific tests and needs to pass those tests to be approved. For this to be possible the formulation needs to be standard across the world.

Some of these approvals also require minimums and maximums when it comes to the additive packs.
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26-05-2017, 10:31 AM
Post: #11
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Where there any tests done on LM top tec 4100? Interested to see how it compares to Helix Ultra

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30-05-2017, 06:57 PM
Post: #12
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(25-05-2017 03:44 PM)Fuzz Wrote:  Pleasure guys...

Lubrication is my thing, LOL Rollsmile

Seems like you will be equally well off using either Castrol Edge or Shell Ultra, but after these results I think I will stick to BMW Twin Power 5w30.

I guess its true that the formula is BMW specific and not the same as off the shelf Shell Ultra 5w30 as it has slightly more ZDDP as an anti-wear additive and more Calcium which should keep things clean on the inside. I would assume the same holds true for the 0w40 used for M-Power cars.

Also, the additive pack in Shell Ultra 5w40 is nearly exactly that of BMW Twin Power. So if you want to stick to OEM and possibly save a buck or two, its seems like Ultra 5w40 would be your best bet off the shelf. It just has a heavier CST at 100C which might be a good thing in our hot climate in SA.

I have followed your post and being a Liqui Molly user I asked my supplier to comment on your observations.
On a high revving engine oil quality is crucial and I would not wish a casual observer being misled into thinking that as long as it comes out a 5liter can it is good to go.
I specifically use Liqui Molly however have no affiliation to Liqui Molly and neither is this to be seen as a defense of Liqui Molly oils.

Below is the response from LM (which was given to my supplier to forward to me} on my query based on your post and links.

"Hi Keith I have gone through the posts yesterday and also followed some of the blogs and the info people are sharing. It is a joke.

I have included my team in BCC, so they can also learn from the feedback. There are a number of Blogs and I always read the feedback from Bob The Oil Guy, but he might know a lot, but some of the people on the sites don’t.

When we have an official BMW approval, LL01, or LL04 or even the new generation, we follow the 100% given Oil formula given by BMW working with Lubrizol. They specify WHAT base you MUST use to get the specific approval, there is no variants on this, you do it right or you don’t get the approval.

Then the oil labs, we see with Wearcheck, Lubetech, Yellowtec, all of them have different equipment and test in different ways. They are also mainly set up to test used oil not virgin samples. We had oil samples taken for our argument with CAT/Barloworld and the same oil was sent to Germany for them to test and then they sent samples from Germany to us. Every sample result was different.

Why would they compare VOA’s if you don’t have them all tested(all the brands they are comparing) in the same lab with experts from Lubrizol, that is independent and won’t be in favour of any specific brand.

Synthetic, what does that really mean if most of the oils today, that HAVE the BMW approvals are Hydrocrack and NOT synthetic? The 10W60 for the M range of BMW is fully POA, but NON of the other, so what are they really saying, they are contradicting each other. This is why I say, people google, have no real experts, have no idea how oil is made and then want to give their opinion. All engine oils are based on different base oils, carefully selected by the developers to make sure OEM, API and ACEA are met. As said there is a specific recipe and we need to FOLLOW that, we can’t do what we want and the most important part is does the oil in question have the official BMW approval, if it is YES, then the recipe has been followed according to the OEM requirements and LM takes full Liability if that is NOT the case.

In SA all oils(Shell, Castrol, Total..) state Synthetic on the label and not one of them are. Even their 10W40 semi synthetic that MUST have 10% POA to qualify for a Semi Synthetic is far below 10%, where ours is never less than 30%. Our quality and everything is proven by the 7th time no 1 in Germany, this is from the consumers themselves, not the dealerships who get free lifts, or have a sponsorship, the consumer that has used the oil and have the results and trust the brand. What other brand can say that?

You also cant from a label determine if an oil is synthetic or not, you can’t even test it when it is a Virgin oil. Like the house example I always use, from the outside they look the same, it is only though Living and some nature factures that you will be able to see if the foundation is the same of both houses.

I have looked at the Polaris Labs, it is a lab like all labs, designed to test USED oil, not Virgin samples and all the VOA test II have seen on the forum is from different labs, so how do these guys compare results that were not all done from the same place and also a lab that tests Virgin samples?

The one comment, “btw it seems like you can’t go wrong with using Shell Ultra 5W40?? Made where? As you can test SA and any other country Shell Ultra 5W40 and the Oil analysis will be different, as they don’t all have the same quality control or laws making sure they follow the correct procedure.

Liqui Moly is ONLY made in Germany and you never have variances, the quality you get in Germany made 100% according to OEM requirements, is the same quality you will get in SA."

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~ Winston Churchill
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30-05-2017, 07:37 PM
Post: #13
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Is anyone using Mobil 1 0w40?
I've been advised to use this in my 335i at the next oil change.

Any views?
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31-05-2017, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2017 11:27 AM by Fuzz.)
Post: #14
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(30-05-2017 06:57 PM)Peter@AEW Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 03:44 PM)Fuzz Wrote:  Pleasure guys...

Lubrication is my thing, LOL Rollsmile

Seems like you will be equally well off using either Castrol Edge or Shell Ultra, but after these results I think I will stick to BMW Twin Power 5w30.

I guess its true that the formula is BMW specific and not the same as off the shelf Shell Ultra 5w30 as it has slightly more ZDDP as an anti-wear additive and more Calcium which should keep things clean on the inside. I would assume the same holds true for the 0w40 used for M-Power cars.

Also, the additive pack in Shell Ultra 5w40 is nearly exactly that of BMW Twin Power. So if you want to stick to OEM and possibly save a buck or two, its seems like Ultra 5w40 would be your best bet off the shelf. It just has a heavier CST at 100C which might be a good thing in our hot climate in SA.

I have followed your post and being a Liqui Molly user I asked my supplier to comment on your observations.
On a high revving engine oil quality is crucial and I would not wish a casual observer being misled into thinking that as long as it comes out a 5liter can it is good to go.
I specifically use Liqui Molly however have no affiliation to Liqui Molly and neither is this to be seen as a defense of Liqui Molly oils.

Below is the response from LM (which was given to my supplier to forward to me} on my query based on your post and links.

"Hi Keith I have gone through the posts yesterday and also followed some of the blogs and the info people are sharing. It is a joke.

I have included my team in BCC, so they can also learn from the feedback. There are a number of Blogs and I always read the feedback from Bob The Oil Guy, but he might know a lot, but some of the people on the sites don’t.

When we have an official BMW approval, LL01, or LL04 or even the new generation, we follow the 100% given Oil formula given by BMW working with Lubrizol. They specify WHAT base you MUST use to get the specific approval, there is no variants on this, you do it right or you don’t get the approval.

Then the oil labs, we see with Wearcheck, Lubetech, Yellowtec, all of them have different equipment and test in different ways. They are also mainly set up to test used oil not virgin samples. We had oil samples taken for our argument with CAT/Barloworld and the same oil was sent to Germany for them to test and then they sent samples from Germany to us. Every sample result was different.

Why would they compare VOA’s if you don’t have them all tested(all the brands they are comparing) in the same lab with experts from Lubrizol, that is independent and won’t be in favour of any specific brand.

Synthetic, what does that really mean if most of the oils today, that HAVE the BMW approvals are Hydrocrack and NOT synthetic? The 10W60 for the M range of BMW is fully POA, but NON of the other, so what are they really saying, they are contradicting each other. This is why I say, people google, have no real experts, have no idea how oil is made and then want to give their opinion. All engine oils are based on different base oils, carefully selected by the developers to make sure OEM, API and ACEA are met. As said there is a specific recipe and we need to FOLLOW that, we can’t do what we want and the most important part is does the oil in question have the official BMW approval, if it is YES, then the recipe has been followed according to the OEM requirements and LM takes full Liability if that is NOT the case.

In SA all oils(Shell, Castrol, Total..) state Synthetic on the label and not one of them are. Even their 10W40 semi synthetic that MUST have 10% POA to qualify for a Semi Synthetic is far below 10%, where ours is never less than 30%. Our quality and everything is proven by the 7th time no 1 in Germany, this is from the consumers themselves, not the dealerships who get free lifts, or have a sponsorship, the consumer that has used the oil and have the results and trust the brand. What other brand can say that?

You also cant from a label determine if an oil is synthetic or not, you can’t even test it when it is a Virgin oil. Like the house example I always use, from the outside they look the same, it is only though Living and some nature factures that you will be able to see if the foundation is the same of both houses.

I have looked at the Polaris Labs, it is a lab like all labs, designed to test USED oil, not Virgin samples and all the VOA test II have seen on the forum is from different labs, so how do these guys compare results that were not all done from the same place and also a lab that tests Virgin samples?

The one comment, “btw it seems like you can’t go wrong with using Shell Ultra 5W40?? Made where? As you can test SA and any other country Shell Ultra 5W40 and the Oil analysis will be different, as they don’t all have the same quality control or laws making sure they follow the correct procedure.

Liqui Moly is ONLY made in Germany and you never have variances, the quality you get in Germany made 100% according to OEM requirements, is the same quality you will get in SA."

Nice sales pitch but with zero scientific tests to back it up. Its that opinion vs facts I mentioned. It's ironic that he speaks of "Google'd facts" yet his pitch is exactly that and he himself is a novice in his oil knowledge.

He said himself that when you have a specific approval the oil has to be made to spec under strict supervision. So why pay more for something with the exact approval ? If will perform to the specified standard in any case. UOA;s have proven this.

Does something made in Germany make is superior to something made in SA ? Of course not but that's the perception. Do you think LM labs and tests are superior to that of a massive organization like Shell's or Castrols'? Of course not and you would be a fool to think otherwise.

Last but not least, Shell Ultra and Castrol Edge are both fully synthetics (Group 4). It says so on the MSDS yet this guy says none of them are. This should already stop you from listening to him and proves how little he knows. Shell Ultra uses a GTL group 4 base while the new Edge is a 100% POA. Legally, you cannot print "Fully Synthetic" if its not a Group 4 oil. You can say "Synthetic" or "Synthetic Technology" if its a Group 3+ base.

MOST of the LM's are Group 3+ oils which are hydrocracked oils, that is, highly refined mineral oils (all your Top Tec's are group3+).

I will go into detail later this evening on his comments as I have a busy day in the office today.

I guess when you selling an oil at a premium cost that is no more superior to what's on the shelf from the less expensive big brands, you will try to slate the person posting scientific facts that disprove a perceived superiority.
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31-05-2017, 01:34 PM
Post: #15
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Thanks for the response and I look forward to your in depth comments when you get to it.

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~ Winston Churchill
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01-06-2017, 10:53 AM
Post: #16
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
Sorry for the delayed response on this but I would like to give detailed feedback on your suppliers comments. I will comment per paragraph.


Quote:"Hi Keith I have gone through the posts yesterday and also followed some of the blogs and the info people are sharing. It is a joke.”

I like how he calls widely known facts in the oil community as “jokes”.

Quote:I have included my team in BCC, so they can also learn from the feedback. There are a number of Blogs and I always read the feedback from Bob The Oil Guy, but he might know a lot, but some of the people on the sites don’t.
The BITOG forum is more than a decade old where both amateur and professional tribologists post their findings and questions. The forum even has subsections for many of the big brand oil companies where you can get answers to your questions directly from the oil manufacturers. These guys are obsessed with finding out exactly how oils perform in different engines and condition. Brushing off many of the scientific test done by the forum members just makes this guys sound salty.

Quote:When we have an official BMW approval, LL01, or LL04 or even the new generation, we follow the 100% given Oil formula given by BMW working with Lubrizol. They specify WHAT base you MUST use to get the specific approval, there is no variants on this, you do it right or you don’t get the approval.

His post is very ironic to his comments further down the line. He is saying that when to have a specific approval from a manufacturer, you have to meet and comply with the exacts standard set out. It confirms what I was saying in that if the label says BMW LL01 approved, then you need not stress using it in your car because you know it will perform as it should. On the topic of Lubrizol, all the big oil manufacturers have to comply with them because they are like the governing body of oil approvals.

BTW, did you know that many of the LM oils state that they recommend it for certain approvals but don’t actually carry the certificate for that approval on that specific oil. Just look out for that.

Quote:Then the oil labs, we see with Wearcheck, Lubetech, Yellowtec, all of them have different equipment and test in different ways. They are also mainly set up to test used oil not virgin samples. We had oil samples taken for our argument with CAT/Barloworld and the same oil was sent to Germany for them to test and then they sent samples from Germany to us. Every sample result was different.

Sure different labs may yield slightly different results, that why the BITOG forum guys try to stick to the same lab for comparison. Also, they have done plenty of UOA’s and not just VOA’s and if you have actually looked at these results you will see how close engine oils with the same approvals perform in the same engine.

Quote:Why would they compare VOA’s if you don’t have them all tested(all the brands they are comparing) in the same lab with experts from Lubrizol, that is independent and won’t be in favour of any specific brand.

But they were tested in the same independent lab so the samples are comparable. Blackstone labs have been the benchmark in the US for ages.

Quote:Synthetic, what does that really mean if most of the oils today, that HAVE the BMW approvals are Hydrocrack and NOT synthetic? The 10W60 for the M range of BMW is fully POA, but NON of the other, so what are they really saying, they are contradicting each other. This is why I say, people google, have no real experts, have no idea how oil is made and then want to give their opinion. All engine oils are based on different base oils, carefully selected by the developers to make sure OEM, API and ACEA are met. As said there is a specific recipe and we need to FOLLOW that, we can’t do what we want and the most important part is does the oil in question have the official BMW approval, if it is YES, then the recipe has been followed according to the OEM requirements and LM takes full Liability if that is NOT the case.

I am not sure what he is trying to say here as it is pretty badly written.

Quote:In SA all oils(Shell, Castrol, Total..) state Synthetic on the label and not one of them are. Even their 10W40 semi synthetic that MUST have 10% POA to qualify for a Semi Synthetic is far below 10%, where ours is never less than 30%. Our quality and everything is proven by the 7th time no 1 in Germany, this is from the consumers themselves, not the dealerships who get free lifts, or have a sponsorship, the consumer that has used the oil and have the results and trust the brand. What other brand can say that?

If you look at the LM awards, they were for best manufacturing practices and for the way the company was run (which is admiral and a great achievement) and NOT for the results their products produce. Its not like Germany had a global engine oil shootout between all the brands, LOL.

On the topic of bases, Shell Ultra uses a very advanced GTL base, Castrol Edge uses a group 4 POA with proprietary additives and Mobil 1 is also a group 4 POA.
Although, tests have proved that the performance difference between group 4 and group 3+ hydrocracked bases are small and only really come in play on extended drain intervals.

Quote:You also cant from a label determine if an oil is synthetic or not, you can’t even test it when it is a Virgin oil. Like the house example I always use, from the outside they look the same, it is only though Living and some nature factures that you will be able to see if the foundation is the same of both houses.

But you can read the MSDS which will tell you. This document is publicly available on the internet and needs to state its content.

Quote:I have looked at the Polaris Labs, it is a lab like all labs, designed to test USED oil, not Virgin samples and all the VOA test II have seen on the forum is from different labs, so how do these guys compare results that were not all done from the same place and also a lab that tests Virgin samples?

As mentioned before, they mainly use Blackstone as the benchmark. Agreed that UOA is more important but even in the UOA LM is nothing special.

Quote:The one comment, “btw it seems like you can’t go wrong with using Shell Ultra 5W40?? Made where? As you can test SA and any other country Shell Ultra 5W40 and the Oil analysis will be different, as they don’t all have the same quality control or laws making sure they follow the correct procedure. Liqui Moly is ONLY made in Germany and you never have variances, the quality you get in Germany made 100% according to OEM requirements, is the same quality you will get in SA."

This contradicts his earlier comment on approvals and strict controls. Shell Ultra locally carries exactly the same approvals and is the same formulation globally. If you think that something made in Germany is automatically superior to something made in SA with out scientific evidence or tests then you are a fool. Heck BMW’s, VW’s and Merc’s are all built in SA and exported. Do you really think and oil company would relax its standards just because the location differs ? Guys have been running Castrol, Shell, Mobil and Total in their engines for ages in SA and those that adhered to the manufacturers specs and intervals never had oil specific issues.

The only reason Liqui Moly costs more is because of the import costs. Test have shown slight impurities in its base as well as “nothing special” additive packs. UOA’s have been good but nothing better than the majority of oils tested.

If you are paying R200-R300 more for a 5L can of oil that at bests performs exactly like the equivalent off the shelf then I wont stop you. Do so if it makes you feel better. I am just trying to say that buying an off the shelf big brand oil with all the required approvals will save you money and there might be a chance that it performs better than the boutique oil.

Look, I am not saying LM is crap. It is a good oil but some people make it out to be the holy grail of oils which it is far from. Its good but overpriced and simply not better than anything over the counter from the big brands.

Oil tests around the world have proven that you cant go wrong with the big brand oils.

Use it, don’t use it.
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25-10-2018, 12:57 PM
Post: #17
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
sorry to resurrect an old thread but im considering changing from the bmw 5w30 oil to the shell helix ultra 5w40 or Motul xcess 5w40 to keep oil temps down especially in Durban in summer.

i have read amazing reviews and reports on the shell oil and motul oil, just wondering if the Motul is that much better being a group 4 PAO oil vs the shell being a group3+. basically is it worth it?

(i have tried liquimoly top tec 4100 5w30 and when BMW replaced my sump gasket under motorplan last year they commented on how sludgy the oil looked i assume that is not a good thing?)
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25-10-2018, 01:05 PM
Post: #18
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(25-10-2018 12:57 PM)Chrism135i Wrote:  sorry to resurrect an old thread but im considering changing from the bmw 5w30 oil to the shell helix ultra 5w40 or Motul xcess 5w40 to keep oil temps down especially in Durban in summer.

i have read amazing reviews and reports on the shell oil and motul oil, just wondering if the Motul is that much better being a group 4 PAO oil vs the shell being a group3+. basically is it worth it?

(i have tried liquimoly top tec 4100 5w30 and when BMW replaced my sump gasket under motorplan last year they commented on how sludgy the oil looked i assume that is not a good thing?)

In my opinion, there is no need to spend more money on the Motul. At best it would perform equally as well as the OEM BMW oil.

Also, just to correct you slightly, while the BMW is produced by Shell, the additive pack is different to what you would find off the shelf. It is in fact formulated to what BMW engineers want it to be.

Tests have proven that your niche, more expensive oils perform no better than your top tier ranges made by your big oil companies.

Economies of scale is what makes your oils like Liqui Moly and Motul more expensive, not performance.
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25-10-2018, 02:13 PM
Post: #19
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(25-10-2018 01:05 PM)Fuzz Wrote:  
(25-10-2018 12:57 PM)Chrism135i Wrote:  sorry to resurrect an old thread but im considering changing from the bmw 5w30 oil to the shell helix ultra 5w40 or Motul xcess 5w40 to keep oil temps down especially in Durban in summer.

i have read amazing reviews and reports on the shell oil and motul oil, just wondering if the Motul is that much better being a group 4 PAO oil vs the shell being a group3+. basically is it worth it?

(i have tried liquimoly top tec 4100 5w30 and when BMW replaced my sump gasket under motorplan last year they commented on how sludgy the oil looked i assume that is not a good thing?)

In my opinion, there is no need to spend more money on the Motul. At best it would perform equally as well as the OEM BMW oil.

Also, just to correct you slightly, while the BMW is produced by Shell, the additive pack is different to what you would find off the shelf. It is in fact formulated to what BMW engineers want it to be.

Tests have proven that your niche, more expensive oils perform no better than your top tier ranges made by your big oil companies.

Economies of scale is what makes your oils like Liqui Moly and Motul more expensive, not performance.
Can you please cite these studies that claim group 3+ perform as well as POA or ester oils?


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25-10-2018, 02:34 PM
Post: #20
RE: VOA of three 5w30 LL01 oils
(25-10-2018 12:57 PM)Chrism135i Wrote:  sorry to resurrect an old thread but im considering changing from the bmw 5w30 oil to the shell helix ultra 5w40 or Motul xcess 5w40 to keep oil temps down especially in Durban in summer.

i have read amazing reviews and reports on the shell oil and motul oil, just wondering if the Motul is that much better being a group 4 PAO oil vs the shell being a group3+. basically is it worth it?

(i have tried liquimoly top tec 4100 5w30 and when BMW replaced my sump gasket under motorplan last year they commented on how sludgy the oil looked i assume that is not a good thing?)

Its the long periods between BMWs recommended services that create slug build-up, do a flush and lower the service interval. Thumbs

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